All Times are Eastern (New York City) Time Zone.

I am betting this doesn't make it through Hoops' shields, but what the heck.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738921629/qid=1003250717/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_2_3/104-1908500-5841532

---

Date: Tues, October 16, 2001, 12:25:43
Posted by: clas, stockholm

lp - yes it is.

clas

---

Date: Tues, October 16, 2001, 09:45:37
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, @work

mark/angel - my husband wants to know if that storytellers dvd comes in vhs format - us dark ages types, well, haven't moved on up to dvd just yet - hurry, he is trying to do last-minute shopping for my birthday today - lol

---

Date: Mon, October 15, 2001, 22:32:33
Posted by: NYBill,

So this is where you guys are...

Well the jigs up, I found you!

Hi Don! Hi Walt! (hey, i had to slip a tangentially Steely Dan

statement in there no?)

---

Date: Mon, October 15, 2001, 18:02:48
Posted by: Michelle, Princeton Jct., NJ

Hey Everyone!

The Storyteller's DVD sounds wonderful. Does this mean a DVD of the full show exists or there are plans for one?

I always like how if you find a Steely Dan song "dirty" it's because of your own thoughts. Funny how some people blame their thoughts on Steely Dan!

Have a good one!

Michelle

---

Date: Mon, October 15, 2001, 11:16:36
Posted by: Boston Rag,

angel - Yes, it is a DVD video. Newbury Comics was selling it

for $14.99. And Captain Hoops can be seen bopping like a maniac during the video clip.

Mark in Boston

---

Date: Mon, October 15, 2001, 09:43:19
Posted by: angel,

I just went over to amazon.com and they have the DVD, but only a DVD Audio version. Mark, are you saying there is a video version of this floating around?

Honk if you Love 11TOW.... Oleander, yes! Wouldn't it be nice.

Definitely would want to meet anyone who understands. :-)

No suit here, LP. Get the web patrol. :-)

---

Date: Mon, October 15, 2001, 09:27:24
Posted by: Boston Rag,

I was going through the DVD racks at Newbury Comics and came across a "Storytellers Classics" title put out by VH-1. It's a "best of" DVD with performances by Steely Dan, David Bowie, Pete Townsend and others. The Steely Dan track is "Kid Charlemagne" and there is a bonus interview (never shown before) with Becker and Fagen that is really funny.

I didn't know this DVD was out as a title, but it is well worth checking out. Just to have a digital copy of 8 minutes of the Steely Dan Storytellers show. Maybe someday VH-1 will put the entire show on DVD.

Have a great week everybody!

Mark in Boston

---

Date: Mon, October 15, 2001, 08:38:51
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, waiting for the coffee to finish brewing

hey paige! pin shots are the pin-ups seen in modeling studios, yes - blueprint blue technically means a blueprint - at the time of this writing of the song, many firms were still using reverse blueprint, where the lines drawn are in white and the paper is blue - hence the reason likely for the lyrical play "blueprint blue"

lizzie macguire - does anyone else not buy a girl that good looking is in the dweeb group? but the opening music isn't bad and her parents are sorta cool

also paige on your dissertation on lyrics - another reason for the inverted lyrical jaunts of the steely dan repertoire is that it appears every song has more than one meaning, first the overt, then then the one beneath - time out of mind is a good example of this - oleander's site is testament to how well this double-speak works for the listener

hey blaise - see, i got a suit on, dear, so it just kind of flows this way - kisses

---

Date: Sat, October 13, 2001, 22:52:17
Posted by: oleander, double take

Ed! What up? You beat me to it. Number Three Son was watching the same program, and came up to me, excited, to tell me that this kid in it said, "Steely Dan? Never heard of them!" I sat down with him and voila! Rick Marotta. Unfortunately, it was not much of a venue in which to showcase his skills.

I guess the Steely radar is up bicoastally.

Hey Paige! E'd ya.

---

Date: Sat, October 13, 2001, 14:02:31
Posted by: Paige,

Listening to Peg earlier today…

Does “pin shots” refer to a “pin up picture?”

Also…Does “blueprint blue” refer to “blue” as in sexual content? As in…”That comedian’s routine is sorta blue.”

Talking to my 18 year old daughter the other day…she had gone out and bought Aja and The Royal Scam at a discount somewhere. This was great news in that I could finally keep track of my own copies.

Anyway, we were talking about the lyrical content of Steely Dan compared to what is currently heard on pop radio stations…particularly in rap and hip-hop. The discussion turned to today’s overt sexual content and Steely Dan’s ability to lyrically disguise similar subject matters. Of course from her standpoint, she didn’t understand why the Dan were not more overt about the sexual content of their lyrics. Having heard so many rap and hip-hop songs that didn’t cover up in any way, the meaning of their content, it seemed to her that the Dan could have “taken more risks” with their lyrics.

Of course, I pointed out that Aja came out at a different time…I also pointed out that the word “fuck” appears in “Show Biz Kids.” So, it isn’t that the Dan were linguistic cowards, so to speak. (In fact, I think that was the first time I had ever heard a four-letter word in a song…and then it had to be pointed out to me. Wait maybe it was the word “bullshit” in “Money” by PF).

The discussion with my daughter spun off into the value of “obscuring” meaning through words or a certain literary style. That is to say…what is more creative, overt language to express meaning or the ability to use a certain literary style to express the same content (in an obscure way).

I have always believed that when you make the listener “work” a little to decipher meaning, he/she gains a greater appreciation for the creative ability of the writer. I see the same thing in humor. There seems to be a spectrum that exists in types of humor. When you watch the Three Stooges, you are basically reacting on a very elementary level…slapstick. On the other end of the spectrum is someone like Dennis Miller, Firesign Theater, or Wright (can’t remember his first name). The listener is required to have some knowledge to “get it.” In the case of slapstick, nothing is obscured (or at least very little is), it is basically overt and in your face…perhaps laughing at someone’s misfortune. In the case of Miller and the like, one must “work it out.”

It is perhaps not a very good analogy. However, I can appreciate the Dan more for the effort made to express themselves and reveal the content of their work in a creative way.

I great example is “I Got The News.”

-Paige

---

Date: Fri, October 12, 2001, 20:18:45
Posted by: edbeatty, west of hollywood (still)

Hi,

While spending some time watching a childrens tv show with my daughter,I was astounded to see RICK MAROTTA playing drums with/for a kids band on this sitcom and he even had spoken lines in this show.

By the way it was Lizzie McGuire on the disney channel.

On another topic,I also enjoy 11TOW thoroughly and while I haven't had the time recently to post or comment. ( I work for Immigration- and yes we have been telling higherups in management for yrs that someday the overstays were gonna be a problem)I enjoyed the discussion here in detail about the scope and depth of 11tow.

Ed

P.S

Hey Oleander,How are ya?

---

Date: Fri, October 12, 2001, 13:59:52
Posted by: Randy, NJ/USA

Lest I be seen as a supplier of false or inaccurate information (which I'm happy to say is rarely the case), it has been brought to my attention that it was in fact Albert Hoffman who was the "accidental" inventor of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), and not Owsley Stanley. In a moment of horrific error I lost all cognitive thought, not realizing it was Hoffman who accidentally ingested the drug through his skin while synthesizing other chemicals.

Stanley WAS the most notable "chemist" who manufactured and distributed the drug beginning in 1965/'66. He was also one of the "suggested composite elements" mentioned by Becker and Fagen for the lyrics to "Kid Charlemagne" as I had stated. I apologize for any possible confusion. I MUST stop taking the stuff before I write about it-

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

---

Date: Thurs, October 11, 2001, 16:04:32
Posted by: W1P, LAX -MSY

Looks like we've decided to go to New Oreleans for the Steely Damned at Tititina's on 10/23. If you live in the area or plan on visiting the area, please send me an e-mail to coordinate a gathering of Danheads in the Pearl of the Quarter for some red beans and rice. Bon Temps Rolerz (sp)

---

Date: Thurs, October 11, 2001, 09:57:22
Posted by: Randy, NJ/USA

"Kid Charlemagne" is NOT directly about anyone. Becker and Fagen have explained on numerous occasions that the protagonist in the song is a "composite" character, i.e. based on a number of people.

The most prominent of these composite elements is Owsley Stanley, a chemist who (accidentally) invented lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), and later befriended authors Ken Kesey and Tom Wolfe, musician Jerry Garcia, and others who were associated with that social scene in California in the nineteen sixties.

The main element of the lyric is wherein the protagonist finds himself out of vogue when the "goods" he supplies(psychedelic/hallucinogenic drugs) began to fall out of favor with his clients. This mirrored what occurred in the mid-seventies as the drug culture moved towards other means of altering their reality by adopting cocaine and other drugs (valium, etc.) as their new "poison of choice." This is what the character in the song is then facing.

Becker and Fagen noted at the time 'The Royal Scam' was released that they found they had written more about current times (1976 or the seventies in general) more than they had in the past.

It should also be noted that when many musicians and others in the music business were asked "what KILLED the spirit that existed in the late sixties/early-to-mid-seventies that powered the music and its musicians to such great heights?" most responded "cocaine (ruined everything)."

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

---

Date: Thurs, October 11, 2001, 09:29:03
Posted by: fezo, intheshadowofMonticello

celebrating four years of wedded bliss today, never thought it could be so fine. i'm a lucky man indeed . . . anyway, ole, i think the exuberance and warmth on "Nightfly" is just another role that DF plays. that it sounds a little more convincing than the snarling stalkers he usually portrays is perhaps the point you were trying to make.

---

Date: Wed, October 10, 2001, 20:32:18
Posted by: Chris, one last thing before i quit

That seems to be the general consensus, Anita. Some will tell you (though SD has disavowed it) that it's about a relatively famous real-life California dealer named Owsley, who I think played a bit role in Tom Wolfe's "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test," though I haven't read it (is it out of print? I loved his two novels and "Bauhaus to Our House" -- anyone out there know?).

This is the flip-side to my other post about looking into the lyrics; there are a _lot_ of drug references in the songs. Don and Walt were a product of their era in that aspect, anyhow. They're clean now if it's any consolation ;) . . .

Chris

ProvRI

where did you get those shoes?

---

Date: Wed, October 10, 2001, 20:24:27
Posted by: Chris, if the dawn patrol got to tell you twice, they're gonna do it with a shotgun.

Nice analogy to a comic strip, George. Some SD plots do have a soap-operatic quality . . . ;)

Can only speak for myself, but I think most SD fans were seduced first by the music ("a critic grabs us / says without a smile" ;) and after several listens started to be drawn in by the lyrics. The gestalt of the two, as you Deutschlanders would say, is what makes SD so brilliant.

Someone should print up some of those 'HONK IF YOU LOVE 11TOW' stickers. I'd put one on my car. If I had a car to call my own. LOL . . .

Chris

Providence, RI

dusted down in shantytown

---

Date: Wed, October 10, 2001, 20:20:20
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

Hi

For some reason,after looking at the lyrics to "kid charlegmane"at the official site,I'm gathering

that its about a drug dealer.

Does anyone agree?

Ayanna

---

Date: Wed, October 10, 2001, 17:54:30
Posted by: George, http://www.reheller.de

I found them lyrics more and more intriguing the more I listened to the music, but first (in (my personal SD) history) came the fascination for the musical structure of the songs, the chord progression and all the unusual stuff around SD music. Don't know which hook sits deeper in my flesh, pictoresquely spoken.

The main theme in SD lyrics for me is a blues theme: imperfect people living imperfect lives in an imperfect world. Not just a bunch of losers, but tragical personae that you might watch like in a comic strip mode, single pictures. With enough humour for a good sad laugh. Which is also in the tradition of Blues.

Oleander, Hoops & others: YES, I will honk. HONK. HOOOONKKK!!! Just listening to WB words & music. Feels so good.

---

Date: Tues, October 09, 2001, 23:38:57
Posted by: oleander, what, me worry?

Chris--Well put about "Nightfly." There's an exuberance and warmth he can't quite hide.

lp--overindulgences. Definitely.

Michelle--I agree with you too. And they angle into relationship like nobody else does. I think the love-objects they pick illumine parts or varieties of relationships that just about no one else has the chutzpah or the subtlety to tackle.

Lars--You do pretty damn well with English as a second language.

Hoopsie--It'll be in the next batch!

---

Date: Tues, October 09, 2001, 18:56:28
Posted by: Michelle, Working Late in NJ

Hey Everyone!

Chris/Lars/Oleander/Other Collaborators' thread is a good one for sure. I hear people say Steely Dan is "guy music" but their music is about relationships. That's how I would summarize this thread.

Have a good night!!!

Michelle

---

Date: Tues, October 09, 2001, 13:32:40
Posted by: Lars, Lund, Sweden

Thanx Ole/Mu/Chris - I knew there was some help on this board. I don't know about the rest of you but for me the lyrics wasn´t the first thing about Dan but then I catched some fragments. Now I love the lyrics (mostly because I don't get much ...)

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Date: Tues, October 09, 2001, 12:59:26
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, @more coffee please

kiefer sutherland might be able to pull off a younger walter becker

i always thought the running theme of sd songs was one word: overindulgences

---

Date: Tues, October 09, 2001, 12:50:47
Posted by: Paul M., Toronto

I 'd love a Steely Dan movie. But it won't happen for a long time, until the time Steely Dan is properly appreciated by more people. Hopefully it will be accurate and not by Ken Burns' grandson.

What album is "Lazy Nina" on? Has Fagen ever released it as a bonus or promo track?

I was listening to "Hat Too Flat" and was thinking the "fashion forecast" verse could be re-written about "terrorist forecasts."

Paul

---

Date: Tues, October 09, 2001, 00:35:24
Posted by: Ben Stiller,

Hoops! Weak lyrics in the song Lazy Nina???? Hey man, the line "walking the dog and watching Soul Train" is worth the price of admission alone on that one. I would give my right nut to hear Donald sing the shit out of that one! I love that song!

Michael McDonald singing "Silent Night" should be pretty neat...I guess.

BTW- I look nothing like Donald.

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 23:34:17
Posted by: Chris Mueller, any world that i'm welcome to

Per usual, Ole, cogent argument articulated eloquently. I think your characterization of Dan narrators as detached, ironic, almost cataloguing observers of the world around them -- man in restaurant -- was particularly apt. Might I suggest that this, by omission, is perhaps the biggest break from the past in the "Nightfly" album -- the music is similar, and arguably evolved from, later SD albums, but there's enough of a subtle shift in the narrator's/narrators' persona/ae to give it a much different feel, the title track excepted. Perhaps this is the infusion of more of Donald's personal sentiment, or simply a different type of mocking irony. But Donald's "Dannishness" doesn't really return to him until "Kamakiriad;" much of his '80s solo canon has a more sentimental bent to it.

Chris Mueller

Prov RI

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 23:04:42
Posted by: oleander, the angel tangoes with the infidel

Lars--I LOVE this thread. There are many different voices in the songs' narrators, but they're so much the same. I hear a man who keeps falling slavishly in love with damaged women he can't have--Peg, Pearl, Josie, negative girl, "Your Gold Teeth," "Dirty Work," even Janie Runaway.... There is the perennial outsider, longing ("Deacon Blues") yet proud of being out there ("Home At Last," "Deacon Blues" again). There's the romantic, really--look at the mise en scene in so many tunes, whether the studio of the Nightfly, the postapocalypse of King of the World, or the banyan trees of Aja. There's the dreamer of "Only A Fool..," "YGT II," and "Any World," and the yielder to prodigious imagination, who can look at "Gaslight" and turn it into the latter-day "Gaslighting Abbie." And even in the songs which depict various unsavory characters, there seems to be a consistent POV, like the guy in the restaurant who watches you and records every item of clothes you have on and every move you make to use in his novel.

I have maintained elsewhere that this observer is an empath and student of psychopathology. I have imagined them thumbing through the DSM-IV (the guide to psychiatric illnesses) with eyes closed, stabbing a finger on a diagnosis, and writing a song about it. That, or they're incredible observers who can nail warped human syndromes in people they encounter.

One of the many things that cause distinctive cognitive dissonance in their songs is that, like Mu said, sometimes they can be truly gentle and consoling, as in "Any Major Dude" or "Confide In Me," and others dispassionate and clinical, if not cruel. It's not just the lyrics that keep you guessing, but the whole POV. I don't see them as ironists per se, but they apply irony like Vermeer applied paint. There is always detachment (different from dispassion), wherein basks their inimitable humor, and which enables them to be spare and impressionistic. Unlike me.

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 13:22:59
Posted by: The Grinch, Just outside of Whoville, in the Mountains of Afghanistan

Also due out on Oct 16

Kenny Vance & The Planotones

Out of This World: Live at the Bitter End

Varese Vintage

Bitter?

Grinchypoo

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 13:20:21
Posted by: Santa Claus, North Pole

Due out Oct 16 on MCA:

NY Rock and Souler/Former SD collaborator:

Michael McDonald

In the Spirit - A Christmas Album

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 10:48:03
Posted by: DrMu, Texas Bunker

Lars: Man Losing his Mind or on the edge

Fire in the Hole

Any World

Seem to have the most in common

Bad Sneakers - not really going insane - just homesick

Don't Take Me Alive - explosions as opposed to implosion

Comforter or Advisor of one in Trouble:

Any Major Dude

Your Gold Teeth II

to take Chris' tack on Recurring Themes: Ok drugs and sex and prostitutes...

But also

Las Vegas:

Do it Again

Show Biz Kids

Music Biz/Hollywood allegories:

Razor Boy

Show Biz Kids

Night By Night (spoof of cop theme shows?)

Throw Back the Little Ones

Caves of Altamira

Babylon Sisters

Glamour Profession

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 10:22:06
Posted by: Chris Mueller, . . . super-fine mind has come undone

Sorry Lars,

Just re-read your post and realised my reply made no sense. I've not had my coffee yet this morning. i just scanned this morning's Bluebook posts without really reading them closely and banged out my slapdash response based on the gist of what I thought you said, i.e. "themes" instead of "characters/personas/narrators."

In light of that, I think you're right . . . although a lot of SD songs have a similar narrative "voice" . . . hmmm . . . I'll mull it over and post later.

Going to get coffee and head back to class!

Chris

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 10:18:15
Posted by: Chris Mueller, . . . those trucks in the street, is it really Monday?

Lars, re: common themes, I'll start with the bleedin' obvious -- the oblique drug references that permeate a lot of the songs, particularly on later albums. It's more over in some places ("Time Out of Mind") than others ("My Old School"), but for better or worse this seems to be a recurring Dan theme.

Chris

Providence, RI

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 05:57:52
Posted by: Lars,

this is probably something for Oleander ... . Most writers have characters/roles/persons which occurs frequently in their writings. I've been looking for that in Dan's lyrics and found very few. the pedophile-thread with the man in cuz d and mr lapage is aweak one (cuz is more incest oriented) the growing-old thread in hey19 and what a shame is bad too ... Help me!

---

Date: Mon, October 08, 2001, 01:21:31
Posted by: hoops, urbana, il

Been out of the way for a while with some personal stuff.

Oleander: "Honk if you love 11TOW" Ha! Great line for a bumper sticker.

I don't go to a lot of movies and have only seen Ben Stiller in "Something About Mary." Yes, he looks like Fagen circa "The Nightfly." But he really wasn't that funny in that movie; I thought he was dull compared to the other characters. His parents, Stiller and Meara, are great. Goldblum would be a good Fagen circa 2000 . But Peg's comment about animation got me thinking: In a return to analog, the bio pic could be CLAYMATION!

Truth: Thanks for bringing up the Triloka recordings. Too bad many of them are so hard to get now.

Beautiful Housewife: Don't forget that Roger "The Immortal" Nichols, co-wrote at least two huge hits for The Carpenters. Just waive that the next time you get heckled.

µ : Agree that a second WB solo album would be much different than a third Fagen album would be different from his second.

JT/MC: Thanks for the heads up on the "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" DVD. It kinda seems that SD doing so well last year has inspired Bernie Taupin to give Elton John a kick in the ass in hopes EJ would place the music first. His new album out is a Taupin-influenced album along the lines of "Tumbleweed Connection" and "Madman" and is as good. So part of the push is to be musicians like Steely Dan and do a DVD of their most popular studio album. Funny interview with Taupin in the "LA Times" where he bashes Elton's biggest hits.

WormTom: Greg Phillinganes had an album out in 1984. It has the Fagen-penned "Lazy Nina" which has a nice groove and cool bridge, but the lyrics are kind of weak, IMHO. If you ask me, "Lazy Nina" is sorta like a demo version—complete with dummy lyrics—for "Century's End" which sounds awfully similar to "Lazy Nina" but CE has much better lyrics. What if Greg changed his name to "Greg Philbin"? Maybe he would have had more popularity.

Speaking of masterful voices that not everyone appreciates, Leonard Cohen is due out with a new album this week or next. He's as great as Dylan in my book. It's been nine years since the last Cohen studio album (save for a couple odd studio tracks on an unsatisfying "More Best of..." ) In the interim he was at a Buddhist monastery, Mount Baldy, in Southern California. Lenny is INCREDIBLE. Like Steely Dan, Cohen really seems to appreciate what his fans do on the web. He thanked them in a live from 1979 album he put out earlier this year.

On 11TOW, it almost seems like the album has a shift in production at a point between "Surf and/or Die" and "Book of Liars." Can't pin-point it but there is this shift. I dunno...

Enjoying the Steely Dan posts here.

h

---

Date: Sun, October 07, 2001, 23:48:26
Posted by: oleander, honk if you love 11TOW

Peg--animation! great idea! But only if they do the hair better than "Toy Story." Maybe instead of humanoids they could do CONCEPTUAL Fagen & Becker. What would they look like?

WOW--'But as an 11TOW fan, my biggest dread is a comment like this: "Goldblum should get a

'Best Actor' nod from the Academy and Thorton will likely be nominated for 'Best

Supporting Actor'." ' HA! made me laugh.

Hey, Ben Stiller is cute.

I was really hoping that two wars were all I'd have to live through, and that my kids wouldn't have to live through any.

---

Date: Sat, October 06, 2001, 20:33:01
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, distress DEEP

Hey! I may be dating myself here, but I happen to LIKE David Cassidy music, as well as the Carpenters stuff. You might say I was raised on it! And, like Donald is sentimental about a scmaltzy NYC band like the Rascals, I feel comfortable listening to my schmaltz of choice, stated above and in your post.

Time to go wash the gray out of my hair while the hub is out renting "Sling Blade" for me!

---

Date: Sat, October 06, 2001, 10:59:36
Posted by: Peg, Lead singer tryouts begin today

Okay, I've got an idea that will solve the arguments as to which actor would play whom, etc. One word: Animation. Or digital creation. Just get a good animator (a Japanese one comes to mind), and commence creating the expose of The Dan. With animation, yon sky is da limit. Imagine the possibilities. As for the voice-overs, well then, you be the judges.

~Peg

---

Date: Sat, October 06, 2001, 09:24:16
Posted by: Randy, NJ/USA

Steely-folk,

The witless, sophomoric, and mind-numbingly one-dimensional "Ben Stiller" should not be mentioned anywhere in close proximity to any conversation relating to Walter Becker, Donald Fagen, or Steely Dan.

Those who feel the need to mention that pathetic swine regardless will be forced to endure FORTY SOLID HOURS of nothing but music by David Cassidy and the Carpenters, after which they will be boiled in sesame seed oil and served to the Bear Pit of the San Diego Zoo.

"Show business kids makin' movies of themselves..."

- Steely Dan, "Show Biz Kids"

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

---

Date: Fri, October 05, 2001, 19:49:37
Posted by: WoolyMan,

Unfortunately, the ONLY person who could play the youthful Becker is dead. Compare photos of a very young pre-beard WB and River Phoenix sometime if you want a spooky experience

By the way, did anyone else notice Jon Herington was in the Lennon show band?

---

Date: Fri, October 05, 2001, 17:37:20
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, D>D>

Word has it from the director and the producers, who've just completed viewing all the screen tests.

Billy Bob will play BOTH B&F, ala Mike Myers as Austin Powers/Dr. Evil. Jeff Goldblum has been relegated to the Gary Katz role. Ben Stiller reprises his role from "Something About Mary", playing a young, geeky, suburban Donald in a flashback from the '60's.

---

Date: Fri, October 05, 2001, 14:19:52
Posted by: Mr.Sticks,

Hello People!

Steely Fan Band will be back out on the road again THIS Sunday for a performance that will bring a smile to your face. Please join us on Sunday, October 7,2001 at the Old Town Fair in Manhattan Beach, Ca. The Address is 1901 Valley Drive at Live Oak Park in the city of Manhattan Beach. Showtime is 2:00pm

We hope to see you all out at the fair as we dedicated this show to those who are no longer with us. Please come on out and have a good time with YOUR Steely Dan tribute band...Steely Fan Band!

Thanks,

Mr.Sticks

---

Date: Fri, October 05, 2001, 11:40:47
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

A Steely Dan bio-pic could be great for us fans if Hollywood doesn't botch it up with some sort of stupid angle. In fact, wasn't there some guy named Sid hyping such a movie on Hoopses' digest several years ago?

While others are debating over who should play the leads, somehow I started worrying as to how the non-Dan Fan movie-going public and the critics would react. To begin pissing us Dan Fans off, I fear that the majority of critics will not get any of the irony. Many will begin their reviews with phrases like, "SHOW BIZ KIDS is the story of Steely Dan, that 1970's rock group who struck gold with 'Rikki Don't Lose That Number'and have not had a big hit since, although they briefly reformed as Steeleye Span...(Steely Dan) did manage to 'steel' Eminem's Grammy...This is NOT the 'Feel-Good' comedy of the summer we have been hoping for."

But as an 11TOW fan, my biggest dread is a comment like this: "Goldblum should get a 'Best Actor' nod from the Academy and Thorton will likely be nominated for 'Best Supporting Actor'."

Also, when is the Joni Mitchell tribute coming out?

WOW

#######################################

---

Date: Thurs, October 04, 2001, 23:47:44
Posted by: angel,

Peg: I could not resist commenting on the line from My Rival. Everytime I hear it now, I think of the fan interview, that Hoops and St. Al did with Donald and Walter last year. Here is the excerpt.

Question: He wears a hearing aid... Why did you make "your rival" have this impediment? Submitted By: Soeren Johansen

Answer: Because "tiny withered dick" doesn't rhyme with "charade." Nor does it scan. Or does it?

It just perfectly captures the ironic humor, of Steely Dan.

---

Date: Thurs, October 04, 2001, 21:32:52
Posted by: Peg, Yup, still looking for a lead singer

One lurking comment, related to Donald's sense of humor, as related by the Beautiful Housewife....I can only imagine the scene you described, as he sang Ray Charles' song....SD's humor is recorded in other songs, too, but I am wondering, does anybody else out there get a laugh from "My Rival"? Especially the part where he describes the guy with a scar across his face, wearing a hearing aid! That gets me every time.

Still smilin'

~Peg

---

Date: Thurs, October 04, 2001, 19:40:27
Posted by: ,

billy bob thornton - someone with no brains? jezez, just the kind of comment i'd expect over here.

---

Date: Thurs, October 04, 2001, 14:16:26
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, Deep Distress

And the credits roll on...for the Steely Dan movie. Working title, "Despair".

With Rosie Vela, of course, as herself. And a short cameo appearance by Libby Titus, finally receiving the movie break she so desperately deserves!

---

Date: Thurs, October 04, 2001, 10:51:11
Posted by: Bob Ramsburg, Wollaston, Mass

11 Tracks is great. Get the Japanese version which includes a 13 track, "Medical Science." It's my favorite of all the tracks because it's got a great groove and simply whacks.

Stiller is a dead-ringer for Fagen. Just look at the cover of "The Nightfly." Goldblum and Billybob? Nope. Goldblum has Fagen's schnoz but his face is otherwise too broad. Billybob as Becker? What an insult! For starters, Becker deserves to be played by someone with more brains.

What's the deal with Diana Krall? She's talented, but I wonder how many of her albums sell because of her looks.

Bob - not Billybob

---

Date: Thurs, October 04, 2001, 09:50:57
Posted by: jefferhayes,

11TOW is exceptional. Book of liars solo goes on and on Walts vocals arent bad at all.Saw the dan tour shortly after 11TOW Walt did book of liars live. Sooooo good couldnt believe many Sd fans picked that time to go break and do the snack/b-room thing. What are they doing at a Dan concert anyway? Walt deserved a little more respect.Anyway 11TOW didnt get near the airplay it deserved and as for his efforts with China Crisis i get goosebumps just thinking of it.

---

Date: Thurs, October 04, 2001, 09:02:36
Posted by: wormy, topsoil nearest you

Beautiful HOusewife

your Goldblum and Thornton choices for Don and Walt are dead on!

I'll add a few of the supporting cast if you don't mind

bare midriff - Madeline Stowe, Ray Dong Chong and Julianne Moore

---

Date: Wed, October 03, 2001, 15:00:34
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, in Deep Distress

Just wanted to get my toobitz in on 11TOW! It's a fine addendum to any Dannites collection, and I have to admit that I admire it much more than it's more mainstream cuz, Kamakiriad. There seems to be an air of sincerity about it that Kama seems to bypass. I can't imagine Walter singing about anyone other than Donald when it comes to "This Moody Bastard"..."Good, clean fun", "You on the bottom" (on the piano), "me on the top" (on guitar over his shoulder piecing songs together), "I hope you're smiling", &tc. &tc. Imagine my delight when they played "My Waterloo" on the '96 tour (a paen to his alienation from'60's culture, IMHO)! And the influence of Walter's kids is quite charming. You can tell he wanted to feature them in a way that would capture them in their youth, like a musical snapshot.

When I saw Donald in NYC in 1992 at the Lone Star, he played Ray Charles' hit "I Got News For You", and let me tell you, his rendition was sublime in it's absolute horror and humor! I had to bite my lip to keep from bursting, laughing out loud at Donald's dry, snide delivery! Later, I read an interview where Donald described his version of "News" as "the comedy version"!

And c'mon, Hoops, Ben Stiller as a "dead ringer" for Fagen? Pulllleeeezzzz. Donald only wishes it were so, I'm sure. In my book, to play the Dynamic Duo on the Silver Screen, it's Jeff Goldblum and Billy Bob Thornton or nobody!!!

Luv, B.H.

---

Date: Wed, October 03, 2001, 13:40:09
Posted by: wormtom, nawlins

I just love Greg Phillinganes playing on the Nightfly

Can anyone recommend other albums that he has been involved with?

the tinkly piano parts in Ruby Baby and Maxine are to die for

11 tracks of wack - never got into it, should give it another go

and I tolerate Dylan's voice

wormy

early one morning the sun was shining

---

Date: Wed, October 03, 2001, 03:32:51
Posted by: steviedan,

hello to everyone here.

just lurking.

---

Date: Wed, October 03, 2001, 01:36:51
Posted by: DrMu, left of the Rio Grande

11 TOW represents as the title track a deliberate attempt to get away from everything Walter had been associated with and used it as a personal cathartic burst of creativity. Because it is Walter's solo album, there's a natural tendency to assume that this album wholly represents Mr. Becker's musical raison d'etre. However, it's deliberately spare at it's core and heavy with blues R&B backdrop and occasional bop accents stabbing though. If he had wanted to make a more layered album that sounded like China Crisis with horns and the whole shebang, he certainly could have done so. Walter simply chose not to do that at that point in time. in that respect, if Walter decided to make a second solo album, the outcome could be much less accurately predicted than the 3rd Fagen solo album (if the interview proves true).

Walter's vocals do grow on ya (like fungus, eh?). He seems almost more comfortable live when he can sync in on the players.

Highlights for me: guitar solo on Junkie Girl, Bob Shepard's amazing solo on Book of Liars; insane dueling guitars on Lucky Henry; thumping bass of Hard Up Case, lyrics to Cringemaker, Girlfriend - favorite song; chorus to This Moody Bastard, Hat Too Flat.

---

Date: Tues, October 02, 2001, 20:06:18
Posted by: Randy, NJ/USA

Chimin' in on the post concerning the alternate '11 Tracks of Whack' songs...

"Medical Science" is every bit as good as the other master tracks... Great lyrics and a decidedly funky "urban" groove. "Fall of '92" receives little mention and that too is a stellar song. Engaging chord changes and a great narrative (among other attributes) make this one of the great "lost" songs in the Steely Dan canon. The demo version of "Cringemaker" gives interesting insight into the crafting of the final master... Cool to see how it evolved, as with all the others on the "Tracks of Whack" boot-

"And you clutch at your chest / But the chute never opens / And they find you there tangled / In that white nylon shroud..."

- Walter Becker, "Surf and/or Die"

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

---

Date: Tues, October 02, 2001, 13:13:24
Posted by: Chris Mueller, proof is . . . proof is the bottom line for everyone

Truth --

Wow! Sounds like a fantastic show; I would have loved to have seen it. I wasn't aware he'd even performed solo to promote the album -- it kinda seemed like it was released on the coattails of the Dan tour '94.

Re: "hypnos" vs. "hipness" -- "hypnos" is how it's spelled on the ID3 tag of the mp3 and it's how most websites refer to it. I grant that "hipness" works as well; I'm only using the common spelling. Thanks for introducing that angle, though . . . although i think there is one point in the song, near the end, when the chorus winds down, and Becker speaks the refrain, slowly . . . "it was the ghost of hyp-nos past." It sounds pretty clearly to me like a long "o." I'll relisten, though.

Re: albums we don't "get" -- I'm with you on Joni's "Blue," although it's starting to grow on me. The only one of hers that's ever grabbed me is "Hissing of Summer Lawns" -- that's definitely a desert island disc -- but a lot of her other, more folky stuff leaves me cold. Dunno why.

Chris

Providence, RI

---

Date: Tues, October 02, 2001, 12:22:14
Posted by: Hank Silvers, c/o Hugo Spaak

Paige: I know what you're going through...not specifically with 11ToW, which is one of my Desert Island Dan discs.

For me, it's like that with Joni Mitchell's "Blue" and John Hiatt's "Bring The Family," to name a couple. Others rave about them, and I pull out my copy and put it on again...and still nothing. Oh well...

---

Date: Tues, October 02, 2001, 08:51:35
Posted by: The truth,

I don't know why people think the name of that song is "Ghost of Hypnos Past". I've always assumed it makes more sense that the word is "hipness" not "hypnos". Whatever, only Walter knows for sure.

Anyone here attend the one and only solo show that Becker ever did, on April 8, 1995 at Slim's in San Francisco? Incredible. Amazing. All 11ToW, plus a few other unreleased goodies (and not the aforementioned "Ghost of Hipness Past" either, nor other songs from that group of outtakes). I think if you saw that concert you would be anxious for another WB solo album.

---

Date: Mon, October 01, 2001, 22:28:06
Posted by: Jim Talbott aka Midnite Cruiser,

hoops....here's a URL to the cover art of the Elton John: Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Classic Albums DVD that I talked about in an earlier post:

http://users.sitestar.net/~jtalbott/EJ_GYBR.jpg

Release date is 11/06/01 and it can be preordered now from DVDPlanet.com for $17.49....you may find it cheaper elsewhere but it's definately coming out....Running time is 90 minutes.

---

Date: Mon, October 01, 2001, 15:42:46
Posted by: Chris Mueller, Providence, RI

Paige,

Try listening to "Book of Liars" a couple times, then "This Moody Bastard" a few times, then "Lucky Henry" . . . then listen to the whole shebang again. Once you know a couple songs and can anticipate their chorus, etc., you become more appreciative of it . . . then you start to like other songs . . . it'll grow on ya.

I join the chorus in soliciting another solo from WB. What, BTW, are people's thoughts on the "unofficial" tracks like "Medical Science," "Ghost of Hypnos Past" (my fave), "Sampaiku"?

Chris

don't look now, we just got stuck in the jaws of time somehow

---

Date: Mon, October 01, 2001, 15:32:57
Posted by: Paige,

Okay...I'm back.

I put 11TOW in rotation on my CD player...nothing!

I'll give it just a few more spins and then it's back to the CD rack for another two years.

-Paige

---

Date: Mon, October 01, 2001, 10:48:20
Posted by: The truth,

Over the weekend I decided to pull out the "In African Eyes" CD by Rene Maclean (sp?) on Triloka Records, that Walter and Roger Nichols mixed back in '92 or '93. It seemed to be a perfect antidote for the depressed mood lately, as it is very uplifting South African influenced music, very joyful. Rene Maclean is the son of jazz great Jackie Maclean. Just a suggestion...

---

Date: Sun, September 30, 2001, 23:53:36
Posted by: angel,

11 Tracks of Whack is a very Personal work. The naked emotion Walter shows, really speaks to me. I agree with Don, that one of the tracks I did not get at first, is now one of my favorites too. Surf and/or die. Can you ever see Donald putting out something so "first Person". I can't.

Some people never get past the stripped down style and Walter's vocals. Those people miss a lot. Excellent work. I hope Walter has the courage and time to give another solo a try.

---

Date: Sun, September 30, 2001, 22:43:54
Posted by: Don,

11 TOW took a good few spins for me to get into it. I'm glad I persevered. The one track I liked the least at the beginning is one of my favourites. Surf and/or die.

Don.

---

Date: Sun, September 30, 2001, 16:29:20
Posted by: Steely Scott, Going insane

Hi Dan Fans!

11 Tracks of Whak took me some time to get used to. I didn't play it for several months after I got it. Then Book of Liars got stuck in my head and I learned to love it.

I wonder if the next tour will focus on smaller venues rather than stadiums. Like the MSG theatre rather than the arena. After all that's been happening since Sept. 11, I could see them playing more low-key venues. Just my opinion.

---

Date: Sat, September 29, 2001, 17:49:26
Posted by: R J ,

With 11 Tracks of Whack, people need to get past that it's not Fagen's voice and it's more guitar oriented. If you do, you will see the soul of Steely Dan. As someone else pointed out, Fagen's voice is pretty unusal as well. I somewhat agree. Neither are sweet and pretty singers, although Fagen is clearly more experienced, polished and what Dan Fans are used to.

R J

---

Date: Sat, September 29, 2001, 17:45:08
Posted by: R J,

Mose the Fireman is a touch like 30's Duke Ellington with a touch of Zappa. What is John Beasley up to these days?

R J

---

Date: Sat, September 29, 2001, 13:03:06
Posted by: Chris Mueller, Providence, Ri

Hey Paige,

I think you definitely owe it to yourself to give it another listen. It's not an album that necessarily grabs you on the first listen, I'm the first to admit. But on the second or third time around, things start to grab you . . . and you start to listen again and again and again and again, and then you fall in love with the album.

It's decidedly different from most previous SD/DF releases, so I can see why it might be offputting at first. But once you get into it, I think you'll agree it's one of the best.

Cheers,

Chris

alive and well, in case you're wondering

---

Date: Sat, September 29, 2001, 12:53:04
Posted by: Paige,

Hey All:

Perhaps I need some help here regarding 11TOW. I listened to it once and put it away. It is still collecting dust in my CD case.

There is little doubt, from the postings here, that I need to pull it back out and give it another try. Perhaps I was expecting something totally different than what I heard. Maybe it was the voice...perhaps the structure of the music (which must have gone completely over my head), or a preceived lack of symmetry.

Anyway..thanks for the posts on 11TOW...going to put it my CD player right now and see what happens.

-Paige

---

Date: Sat, September 29, 2001, 05:19:19
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

DIG THIS:

Walt seems to be the bigger (publicly) jazz enthusiast, yet it's Don who likes playing those block jazz chords. 11ToW is wonderful, yet the moving (think the intro to "Deacon Blues") progressions aren't there in the key Steely Spots (verse, chorus, bridge). Not to say there's anything wrong with 11ToW, but still...

Don seems to be the bigger (publicly) R+B enthusiast, yet it's Walt that obviously has touched our hearts and (depending on gender) balls with his amazing rhythm and blues playing. Walt seems to be the only person in America that knows how to make a Jimmy Reed riddum into something interesting, and although "Kamakiriad" seems like the blueprint for gorgeous post-Reed white R+B playing, the 7th chord influence ("Monkey In Your Soul") is missing, and "Janie Runaway" makes us all feel like the two are back home.

It honestly is a seemless configuration, as much as I'd like to say (read: point out, screaming and all blustery) otherwise.

Then again, I'm listening to Queen and I'm so drunk that I can't see my socks.

---

Date: Sat, September 29, 2001, 03:33:44
Posted by: Elaine S., East of Hollywood in Covina

If Donald and Walter were doing a charity performance, I could see them doing some classic jazz instrumental by Monk, Ellington or Coltrane to remind us of the greatness of New York City and its music.

W1P-A Danfest in New Orleans with the Damed would be great. Just need the cash. That means I will have to wait and catch them and you locally.

Yes, I can see how Donald is slightly sweeter and more melodic than Becker while Walter adds more vinegar and blues to the mix. Still, it's not as cut and dry as Lennon and McCartney.

Bye,

Elaine

---

Date: Sat, September 29, 2001, 03:09:08
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

I never rhought the Becker/Fagen relationship was as simplistic as the Lennon/McCartney relationship. After a spell, or "Beatles For Sale," it was more than obvious who wrote which Beatles song. I don't think it's as easy with Don and Walt; i.e., Walt writing nasty lyrics with a biting edge and Don ripping off chords outta a DeBussy whateva. I really think it's a mixing pot, and I think it'll take the words of the artists themselves to prove me wrong.

Roxy Music is cool.

---

Date: Fri, September 28, 2001, 17:58:10
Posted by: Michelle, West of the Jersey Beaches

Hi everybody! TGIF!

I also must weigh in on 11TOW. Great album! Required listening for any Steely Dan fan. In many ways, Becker is to Fagen as Lennon was to McCartney.

See you at Happy Hour! ;-)

Michelle

---

Date: Fri, September 28, 2001, 16:59:15
Posted by: Chris Mueller, Providence, RI

Well put, Randy. I also play 11TOW a good deal more than Kama or Nightfly, although those albums are dear to me as well. Becker is often written off as the "silent partner," but I think he was the driving force behind the band's mordant lyrical sensibilities.

"This moody bastard

Remembers

You were some kinda friend even then

Once in a great while

He needs one . . ."

Chris

in the good old bad part of this college town

---

Date: Fri, September 28, 2001, 14:22:28
Posted by: hoops,

Thanks to Gina for the follow up to posts about Dylan by myself and 'flower in the past couple of months. A lot of greats are influenced by him, including, of course, Becker/Fagen. Really fantastic new album. I was surprised when I saw a recent interview where Dylan was a bit critical of Daniel Lanois who co-produced "Time Out of Mind."

Dave; The Mose The Fireman idea is a good one. Surprised no one thought of it. All of course based on the premise the Dan would do a telethon, which I doubt, but you never know. I could see them doing something more along the lines of the Paul Griffin benefit, lower key.

h

---

Date: Fri, September 28, 2001, 12:50:00
Posted by: Randy, NJ/USA

Great to see someone else here espousing the merits of Walter Becker's "11 Tracks of Whack." I personally am very thankful he made that album, and not to draw comparison, but I do play Becker's album more than either of Fagen's (not that they're not stellar as well).

"11 Tracks of Whack" was simply one of the best releases of the nineties. Sharply written, brilliantly played, and full of Becker's patented acerbic wit and dark humor, it clearly gives great insight into the heart of Steely Dan. His vocals were emotively soulful to these ears, and Becker is undoubtedly one of rock's most underrated guitarists (or bassists, for that matter) - though not at my house. He's been a sizeable influence to me a guitarist, bassist, AND singer.

Much of Steely Dan's lyrical perspective and musical adventurousness came from Becker, and this album deserves more airplay and exposure than most of the atrocious drivel that currently permeates the airwaves and synapses of the world. Hopefully a solo follow up will at some point see the light of day, but unfortunately I wouldn't count on it-

"No fooling it's a fucked up world..."

- Walter Becker, 'Junkie Girl'

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

---

Date: Fri, September 28, 2001, 12:12:44
Posted by: Moose,

Hoops,

Since St.Al's page is kaputt, can we bring the anti-clas discussions to this book? Afterall Gina is already here and this place is starting to stink.

a retarted bow

---

Date: Fri, September 28, 2001, 04:17:55
Posted by: Gina, Lighthouse Mountain

http://www.math.lsu.edu/~zabic/lighthouse/listen.htm

scroll down just a bit and then you can see

this is a link to a radio special, Bob Dylan. Stanislav Zabic is a RLJ friend and grew up in the terrors of war, being bombed out of almost every city he lived in as a child. he hosts a true lighthouse, has a refreshing taste for music and admirable views and a kind nature. like Moonflower he noticed the "coincidence" of that day when the new Bob Dylan album came out.

it was his guest Jamie btw noticing the "unity" of events ...

and if you're wondering about the DANgle in all of this, please check the Lighthouse site map and let Dr. Wu show you around :-)

---

Date: Fri, September 28, 2001, 00:36:11
Posted by: Dave,

Tribute/telethon suggestion, not that SD would likely appear:

Something from "Mose The Fireman."

---

Date: Thurs, September 27, 2001, 15:49:46
Posted by: hoops,

Blaise, you're right, I had forgotten about the Grammy day chat on John Fisher's radio show. Thanks for reminding. Well, who knows but them. Just hope current events don't postpone things.

NY R n S was indeed special, but, it did indeed leave me wanting for more Steely Dan. The show I hit was at Indy and it was sparsely attended, but it was great to hear them begin to play stuff live for the first time and to hear McDonald with Fagen for "Pretzel Logic."

I entirely missed it, but I love hearing stories of the pre-1992 NY R n S tour shows on Long Island, at Lone Star, etc. I wasn't aware of "Metal Leg" so I was entirely in the dark about such things.

Yes, Stiller is a dead ringer for Fagen.

Can't say it enough: 11TOW--incredible album and ranks right alongside all the Steely Dan albums. I do pine away for a followup from Becker. A witty album that shows the soul of SD.

h

---

Date: Thurs, September 27, 2001, 12:41:49
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

Been said before, say it again: Ben Stiller should play Donald Fagen in "The Steely Dan Story"

93 wasn't anti-climatic. It was a climax and also the beginning of a new chapter. 93 was like Christmas after the period between Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve. I certainly wouldn't have been satisfied with Rock and Soul repeated in 93, Jostyn's great contribution not withstanding. 92 just made me all the more hungry for what happened in 93. 92 was a teaser, an appetizer when I really wanted a full course. Now 94 was perhaps secondary, but 93 was the most important of all the Steely Dan tours.

Wow

####################

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Date: Thurs, September 27, 2001, 00:59:17
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

Good Doctah: At least your friend didn't say "all his stuff sounds alike."

Spring 2002 seems way too quick. Could you imagine a new SD album in six months? Wow. At best, they got back into the recording studio this time last year. 1.5 years to make a Steely album? I'd take it, but I wouldn't bet on it.

It would be the best thing to happen to me right now, save for a 21-year old blonde with a Joe Sample CD in her collection.

---

Date: Thurs, September 27, 2001, 00:25:33
Posted by: DrMu, Lone Star

Lars: Interesting about the 120 channels. The approach is miles apart from Coming Home - I detected a very produced sound as well simply from the clips. We can't all be Steely Dan. Miss Riddle, Payday, and Sarah are polished, very good and distinct as you've mentioned. I don't Dig The Natch either.

Despite the anal-ness of the Guys and even the some diversity of styles, TvN is very cohesive. That's something about Steely Dan one can appreciate. Each album has a unique and distinct ambiance despite the baffling array of players. Like 8 period pieces unto themselves. The strangest quote about Steely Dan from a friend was that "all their stuff sounds alike." My face was stuck in a twist of puzzlement for a solid week.

Hoops: Is no news good news? Too busy? A stealth record? Hype time following the blizzard of awards would be mercifully short in comparison with months of campaign before TvN. Haven't given up hope for 2002 yet...

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 23:49:28
Posted by: R J,

The New York Rock and Soul Revue was something special, for sure. I would be glad if they had a 11-year reunion. (Hard to believe it's been that long.) Lone Star gigs as well something incredible. Still, I view 1993 as when it all really happened. It would be great if this winter or sooner, that Fagen would come out again and say, "The War's almost over" like he does on the NY Rock and Soul CD.

I bet it would loosin' up the SD shows a bit if they mixed in 2-3covers of rock, soul and blues classics like the Revue. But if this stuff with the terrorists don't stop, I wonder if we will see a tour next year.

R J

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Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 23:34:06
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

hey guys...

have we ever determined who played the long guitar solo on "Red Giant/White Dwarf" from YGWILYTI? There's a lot of bends/blues/uncertainty a la Walt, but Denny was pretty firmly entrenched as lead-man back then, and there are some Dias-esque slides.

Any thoughts?

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 19:46:29
Posted by: Lars,

Hi Mu; I bought the new Boz album after hearing Payday. I was thrilled by the bluesy guitar. All songs are good but it doesn't give the feeling of an album - more kind of 11 songs in plastic. To my ears there's just one weak song "Get on the natch" where he tries to be hip with synthetic rap. "call that love" gives me a smell of Kama.

I read an intervue in a swedish mag where he talked about recording digitaly "and using 120 channels isn't good for me - I tend to fill them all" and that explains the lack of direction in production. Clean and good but with no clear intention.

Not a must but a very good one I think

L

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 19:14:39
Posted by: Blaise, Everywhere, Cyberspace

Hoops - If you caught that Seattle radio interview on Grammy day, there WAS official word of that Steely Dan release/tour timeline. I heard it from the men themselves and that hardly makes it a rumor. Did they modify their aim since then? That's another question. But they definitely hinted at a release of the Next One in the Spring of 2002 and that a tour would follow in the Summer. Add to that, the revelation of a Fagen solo album prepared in parallel and possibly set for release some time after all of this is completed. We shall see...

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 19:04:08
Posted by: fezo, playgroundinthesand

In some ways, I've always thought the '93 tour was almost anti-climatic after seeing NYRS in '92 (or was it '91). Our heroes had always been such figures of myth, almost Salinger like, and then suddenly to have a chance to see them live was just way too cool. And the version of "Deacon Blues" with Mindy Jostyn front and center is forever on replay in my head.

On the other hand . . . '93 was also great . . . the utter surprise and delight of seeing "Third World Man" performed live, and getting to hear all about Little Foxy for the first time . . .

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 18:38:38
Posted by: Chris Mueller, Providence, RI

Thanks for the response and info, hoops.

Despite the album-a-year streak the Dynamic Duo maintained during the early '70s, I'd hazard a guess that putting The Next One together in two years might be a mite constricting -- after all, it took them the better part of a decade to put together 2VN and by all accounts nearly two years to simply _record_ it. Which is fine -- this anal perfectionism is why we love the Dan. But I sure do hope they tour in '02 . . .

On a tangential note. Am I the only one who rates 11TOW as one of my Top Ten albums? It's been panned for being to sparsely instrumented, but I think that's part of its charm . . . it's so different from everything else in the SD canon, and I can't get enough of his acid wit. Even with the Dan now officially reunited, I'd love to hear from WB again.

C

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 18:06:51
Posted by: Michelle, Princeton Junction, NJ

This list of songs banned by Clear Channel Radio stations is absurd. Leaving on a Jet Plane, Imagine, When Will I See You Again, Leaving on a Jet Plane, Bennie and the Jets, When Will I See You Again?, Helter Skelter, dozens more. Any song can be given a negative connotation within the context of the attack on New York City if you want to look at it that way. I'm sure they would ban Big Noise, NY. Sadly, it's those literalists who ban such songs that miss how Steely Dan and the like go right over their heads.

"We are dumb all over." -FZ

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 17:08:08
Posted by: Jim McKay,

I don't believe there has been any official indication of "The Next One" coming in 2002 nor have we seen or heard official word that there will or will not be a tour in 2002. All we have heard are rumours, delicious ones at that. I sure hope both will happen.

My favorite memories from the 1993 tour include driving 80 MPH from Illinois to Detroit for the opening show since I forgot about the time zone difference. Aside from that, there was the performance of "True Companion" at that show and then the up front seat I scored for the Chicago show. And I was really drunk at the Chicago show since I was so excited. And then there were Walter's solo songs which I thought were great. And I thought the band was great. It was really euphoric and I went nuts for the shows I was able to hit, although looking back, I'm sure I looked a bit ridiculous in all my excitement. What a tour! Hell, all of them--"What a bunch of tours!"

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 16:46:22
Posted by: Chris Mueller, Providence, RI

Touring '02 . . . maybe it's premature to begin speculating, but is it in fact a foregone conclusion that they _will_ tour? (I hope so.) Has the late spring '02 album date been pushed back by recent events and/or D&W's perfectionist habits? Would that affect touring?

Just trying to get a sense of what's going on . . . been a while since I've heard from the rumor mill . . .

c

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Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 13:53:41
Posted by: lp, @salad and cold pills

wormy: my memory of the Kama tour was a fabulous rendition of tomorrow's girls, the place was rockin - i was disappointed in the horn section with exception of course to bumpus, especially if you compare it to the previous "three saxophones" year - the rest of the guys were undisciplined on stage, donald and walter kept having to scold them - of course, having second row seats that year afforded me the opportunity to see up close and personal the goings-on on the stage - wow, a great night indeed

wish i had those seats in the y2k tour - boston show, of course, btw

yes on turn that heartbeat over again as i posted below, that woulda sent a few people into overdrive - yipes!

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 13:30:15
Posted by: wormy, new orleans

Midnite - the Making of DVD's are mostly quite good

I have the Who's Next and U2 Joshua Tree discs as well as Aja

All very nice and informative, but only Aja has the artists interviewed together

(scheduling problem or inner band issues???)

less video and archival stuff for Steely Dan than the others

Hoops - that Aja 3 pack Making of disc set is setup to sell copies of Phil Collins disc, which hasn't been selling

also noticed that Kid Charlemagne from Storytellers is available on a best of Storytellers

would anyone who caught the Kamakariad tour like to comment on the musicians used, songs covered, etc.

thanks

worm tom

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 11:29:40
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

There's only one way DF would have been on the telethon. Getting a massage from Dr. Dot!

Maxine is a s-l-e-e-e-p-y-y-y song. "Try to hang on"

WOW

#########

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Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 00:39:44
Posted by: Frank, mississippi

John-- You were expecting Donald to play on the telethon? Your joking...right?

---

Date: Wed, September 26, 2001, 00:37:57
Posted by: Frank, mississippi

John-- You were expecting Donald to play on the telethon? Your joking...right?

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 23:18:27
Posted by: John, Erie, PA

I was expecting Fagen to possibly play piano for one of the New York acts on the telethon. Like Paul Simon.

Major Dude is a good choice.

The lyrics to Big Noise, New York sure take on a new, unsettling interpretation.

John

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 23:09:08
Posted by: angel, any minor world that breaks apart, falls together again

RJ: Any Major Dude was my suggestion, too. I thought it would be more upbeat then most of their stuff.

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 22:21:46
Posted by: R J ,

"With stocking face I bought a gun/The plan was set the plan was done /Looked at my watch and started for the door"

and

"Love your mama/Love your brother/Love 'em till they run for cover"

Huh??????

If the Dan wanted to perform one of their own songs, I'd suggest Any Major Dude Will Tell You. Mellow. Soothing. Reassuring.

R J

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 20:47:25
Posted by: W1P, LA to New Orleans?

So anybody thinking about New Orleans for the 10/23 Steely Damned show at Tipitina's? NO Danfest? I gare oinn tee.

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 16:09:31
Posted by: Mr.Sticks,

Greetings America and Beyond!

The Steely Fan Band sends out best wishes and our condolences to everyone that lost loved one's on September 11,2001. As we try to get back to living our lives as normal as possible we hope that our music can help you out!

We will be back out on the road again in two weeks for a performance that will bring a smile to your face. Please join us on Sunday, October 7,2001 at the Old Town Fair in Manhattan Beach, Ca. The Address is 1901 Valley Drive at Live Oak Park in the city of Manhattan Beach. Showtime is 2:00pm

Thank You all .

God Bless America.

Steely Fan Band-A Tribute To Steely Dan

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 15:55:03
Posted by: hoops,

LP, Agreed. Good thread. Just simply my single opinion and no one should even think it means it shouldn't be talked about. Please do discuss.

Am I the only one who can't find the "Billboard" for 9/22/01 with the Scheiner article? Stores keep telling me they probably aren't going to get that issue in.

Headed home early today--see you in a day or two.

h

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 15:44:46
Posted by: lp, @coffee

hoops, agreed, it isn't in their circle of gatherings, but it was a good thread to play with

in fact, if it was their "party" (or mine), who else would they ask along?

woody allen

diane keaton

lou reed (ouch, anything from the NY album applies, in a biting sort of way)

rlj, of course

michael franks

the ramones (hey, they are just so NY)

keep neil young

keep michael keaton

ny rock and soul revue revival, et al

hey why not?

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 15:31:27
Posted by: hoops,

Seeing Walter and Donald perform an acoustic, or stripped down set--yes.

But should they have performed on last Friday's telethon? Nope. Can't put it into words but somehow, SD isn't mainstream in a certain "People" mag sorta way...I don't know.

h

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 14:46:57
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, @salad

hoops - i watched the last hour of the telethon and it did have a coffee hour meets jerry lewis feel to it - the candles helped a bit, and julia roberts not keepin it together made it a little more real and less stoic - the performance by neil young i saw in the news looked prety good - glad he got his voice back, i saw him a few years ago and he was having a rough time of it -

my pick if d/w were there -

1. definitely unplugged, with the mid driffs: "turn that heartbeat over again" (a prayer for peace)

or

2. a brubeckian jazz quartet: "new frontier" (we've been here before reminder) or "maxine" (young love in new york, what is more uplifting than that?)

anyone else?

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 13:58:12
Posted by: hoops,

Have heard nothing about a DVD about the making of "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" but "The Making of Aja" is by far the best of the bunch. I've seen "The Making of Aja" bundled with "The Making of (U2's) Joshua Tree" and another on a Phil Collins CD. What an odd combination, IMHO.

D + W's comments on Scheiner are hilarious (as always).

I also saw "Chicago Tribune" commentary that KD mentioned. Yes, irony can be irreverent but one doesn't require the other. I've always found irreverence to also be a suggested quality of many Steely Dan tracks.

For a telethon, I also thought it was pretty good. Didn't see it all, but it was better than expected—and what I expected was like the Jerry Lewis MD telethon. Great cause but a bit over the top. I thought it cool that they didn't say who was performing and I liked all the stripped down performances. I sure wouldn't mind a Dan performance of just Walter on acoustic bass and acoustic guitar and Donald on grand piano and maybe one or two other instrumentalists...as a trio or quartet. Would be great. I know I loved the bass/drums/vocals mixes of "Trans-Island" and "Snowbound."

h

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 08:34:08
Posted by: Midnite Cruiser,

Has anyone seen the Classic Albums release of Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road? I see it's going to be released on DVD the first week in November and was wondering if it was any where near as good as Steely Dan's Making of Aja DVD from the same folks. GYBR really was a classic album and if the DVD is any good at all, I'd like to have a copy of it. It can be pre-ordered now from DVD Planet or Ken Cranes for $17.49. I just got the Michael McDonald: A Gathering of Friends DVD last week and it's a good show. A nice mix of hits with lots of guests. A bit uneven in spots, but overall a really good show.

MC

---

Date: Tues, September 25, 2001, 00:17:43
Posted by: Mr. Billboard,

" We first met Elliot in 1969 at A & R Studios. We were cutting tracks with Jay and the Americans, which he was working on. Steely Dan's first tracking with Elliot was around 1975 or 1976, The Royal Scam. Over the years, we've worked with him on a number of our albums. Aside from The Royal Scam, he tracked and mixed Aja, Gaucho, Donald's solo album, The Nightfly and Two Against Nature. He's done a lot of stuff for us, and he's wonderful to work with. He has a great and unwavering sense of what sounds good. He always gets the sound he wants. And, on top of that, his jeans always have a great fit! "

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 19:20:09
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

Clean Dean did play a banjo back in the day, but Fleck would have to be on the short list just on the basis that he's the first cat to make money off a banjo since "Will the Circle Be Unbroken."

hoops - Steve Johnson could have had a solid take on irony in last week's Trib, but he seemed to confuse irony and irreverency. Again.

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 18:36:40
Posted by: hoops, urbana, il

Regarding RJ's comments yesterday on irony. Today's "New York Times" (sections B and C) has two articles discussing America's sudden change in humour. Both ask the question, "Is irony dead?" It gives several different views. I'm going to play devil's advocate, perhaps those who used irony as a trendy type of humour may find they need a new trend or formula to latch on to. But for the Dan, they are classic and their kind of irony is classic as well, transcending any sort of 90s trend.

Andrew, glad to hear that you and yours are well. It is sad to hear that about Jones Beach. In The Dannys, a lot of fans ranked Jones Beach amongst the top venues on last year's tour. Looking forward to when this all passes and we're out there again for another Steely Dan show.

Listen to "Mose the Fireman" and it's not too hard at all to understand how Becker could appreciate Bela.

Be well.

h

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 17:13:48
Posted by: Andrew, Bellmore, LI, NY

I am sorry to say that it has taken the atrocity that occurred at the WTC to bring me to posting here. First, I would like to say thank you publicly to those who have been thinking of me and sending prayers towards me and my family. Thankfully everyone is fine.

I live in Bellmore on Long Island, which is about 25 miles from the city. It's hard to believe that Steely Dan played Jones Beach just 14 months ago. I am sad to say that there is now no access to the beach because the military has placed two aircraft carriers with F-16s just off shore.

Peace to all,

Andrew

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 16:59:33
Posted by: Hank Silvers,

KD, I seem to recall a chat some time back where Walter said he was a fan of Bela Fleck. That's a long way from inviting him to play on a record, I know, but if they were to come up with a song with a part for a banjo player, Fleck likely would be on their short list.

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 16:42:20
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

I take it back. Aja has angular banjos and they sound good to me.

WOW

#######################

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 16:34:47
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

I don't think ANY Steely Dan song features a banjo.

DVD-Audio Demystified:

http://equip.zdnet.com/theater/dvd/feature/18abe/index.html

WOW

######################

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 14:41:26
Posted by: Gina, Arabesque Mountain

Did i read Debussy? Not that i am an expert, but my brother used to play a great deal of Debussy and i particularly remember him playing the Arabesque No.1 in E .. i asked him to play this one for me each time i was visiting my folks. This about 15 years ago now.

What would mr. Fagen like about Claude Debussy?

He was a composer who managed to make use of a wide range in the color palette of sounds. He was able to make extremes meet as if there had never been any distance. And one can hear and even distinct the nature of his compositions. As if they come from another era, maybe even the future compared to the time in which they have been written. The music came from within. Despite cultural or alleged influences by others. Mr. Fagen is sometimes considered to be somewhat of an autist or better yet perhaps blessed with an autonomous mind. So he would be inclined to admire a kindred soul, if even so one from a time long before his own. And Debussy showed little restraint when coloring his inner palette and taking it into sounds. It takes you away if you dare to give in when listening!

---

Date: Mon, September 24, 2001, 00:24:00
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

"Bela Fleck strikes me as being too earnest to be on a Steely Dan recording."

That, and he plays the banjo.

---

Date: Sun, September 23, 2001, 23:19:51
Posted by: R J,

Sam: Good observation about Bela.

Letterman, Leno, Conan, everyone's so reverent since the attack. Does this mean irreverence is out or unpatriotic? If so, will all of our boyz' new songs be like Walk Between The Raindrops?

Been listening to the just-out Elvis Costello remaster of Spike. The one he did when he collabroated with Macca. 2 CDs. 1 CD is the original album and 1 CD is the demos and outtakes. Maybe that could be the format for the next wave of Steely re-releases.

I saw that MCA is standardizing on SACD, Sony's standrard rather than Waner's DVD-A. Will this mean no DVD-A s of the original 7 albums????

R J

---

Date: Sun, September 23, 2001, 19:50:04
Posted by: Sam,

Read in today's paper that Bela Fleck has a new one out called Perpetual Motion. It's classical. Fleck covers compositions by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Chopin, Paganini and Debussy. Apparently other banjo players have done this before, but the critic claimed that Fleck has done it better than anyone else.

Fagen said in a recent interview that he was facinated by Debussy. I am not familiar with Debussy. Why would Fagen be facinated by him? Bela Fleck strikes me as being too earnest to be on a Steely Dan recording.

---

Date: Sun, September 23, 2001, 03:46:16
Posted by: W1P, LA

Wyclef Jean for President!

---

Date: Sat, September 22, 2001, 23:58:27
Posted by: R J,

W1P: Maybe it was to be a daisy but then the Marigold Association paid the boys off for product placement. There's a lot of money in that.

Last nite's telethon was much better than I expected.

R J

---

Date: Sat, September 22, 2001, 04:48:01
Posted by: W1P, LA

Well the Lyndon Johnson commercial had the little girl with a daisy while KOTW refers to marigolds but I can't help but think the flower reference is at least indirectly influenced by the commericial particulary given The Dans' ages.

---

Date: Fri, September 21, 2001, 20:25:39
Posted by: DrMu, Tejas

I had forgotten about Dig lately (who hasn't?), but had downloaded 3 songs on Liquid Audio prior to... Those (Miss Riddle, Payday, and Sarah) feature an R&B production with a nod to modern (maybe too modern at times?) production. Heard a couple of Real Player snippets of other songs. Very precise, smooth, jazzy, and layered. Roy Hargrove Jr. is featured on Mr. Riddle - a Danlike track with a great horn chart. payday has a Lowdown feel. A 2001 attempt at Silk Degrees? The songs are quite good, excelling especially in the bridges, from what I've listened to. I'd like to know if anyone has the CD. It's on my list whenever I get get to that as professional duties are enormous now...along with Ben Folds' new one Rockin' the Suburbs - anyone have that one?

---

Date: Fri, September 21, 2001, 17:18:06
Posted by: Steve,

I was reading about a 2-hour telethon that will be on all the TV stations tonight. It will benefit all of those victimized by the horrible events in NYC. Does anyone know if Steely Dan will appear?

---

Date: Fri, September 21, 2001, 16:23:51
Posted by: Paul,

New York Rock and Soul Revue member Boz Scaggs has a new album out called Dig. It's produced by Danny Kortchmar and David Paich. I think this is his first since 1993 or 1994. Has anyone heard it?

Paul

---

Date: Fri, September 21, 2001, 12:55:16
Posted by: Slim Whitman, Swiss Alps or UK or both

Did you see that Meso-Soprano VIXEN sing God Bless America last Friday at the National Cathedral? I kept thinking three things. One, she was the epitome of VIXEN, she must be a SCREAMER too. Two, Good thing Billy Graham didn't wear a push up bra too-thank God!!!!! (and not Billy Graham's "God") Three, As always, I kept giggling in church, this time thinking, "Even Cathy Berberian knows there's one roulade she can't sing" Maybe that's more than three items, huh?

This brings me to my point: Will Donald choose to yodel on The Next One? With the slow down in the economy, yodeling lesssons could be cheap. But it could come naturally to Donald. What next? Accordian? Also, Don't you think Donald could cover Gene Wilder's part in "Will Wanker and the Chocolate Factory"? And I keep forgetting. If Donny and Walty really wanted Candy Dulfer in the band, couldn't they just have as easily put a push-up bra on Bob Sheperd, Shepard, Shepperd, Shephard, Sheepherd? (I like him, I just don't know how to spell him) and Manssieres on the rest of the horn section?

I dunno. It's just been too deathly serious and I had to burst out with something before I cracked. I guess I have.

---

Date: Fri, September 21, 2001, 09:58:16
Posted by: Martha Stewart, DIY

Here's a simple yet effective way to turn your ODP jpeg into a real button and it's FREE! First, you save said picture on your hard drive by right-clicking on it. Second, you print it out on your choice of printer paper. Third, you carefully cut around the button pictured. Last but not least, you glue it over an existing button of roughly the same size. And there you have it: your very own "I'm heartbroken over NYC" button.

---

Date: Thurs, September 20, 2001, 22:51:20
Posted by: John Sampson, Erie, PA

The "I (broken heart) NY" button at steelydan.com. Is that something that Steely Dan came up with? Or is that something being sold around NYC these days?

John

---

Date: Thurs, September 20, 2001, 14:40:02
Posted by: hoops, at lunch

Thanks for bringing all of that to our attention, Truth. I had always thought "Kama" went platinum while "The Nightfly" had not until last month, on 8/24/01. But according to riaa.org, "Kama" went gold on 7/28/93 and has not been certified Platinum. "The Nightfly" went gold on 12/14/82. "Kama" was in cut-out bins frequently during the mid 90s but now I see it at list price while "The Nightfly" is priced mid-line or budget, "Super Savers."

Looking forward to the Scheiner article.

Don't know about "Reelin'," Beautiful HW, but, yeah, there are a couple points where one might argue about "West of Hollywood" and that cheesy America hit from the early 80s. But overall, no.

I really thought 10K Maniac's "In My Tribe" was a new wave Peter, Paul and Mary. Impeccably recorded and mastered. It really hooked me for a long time. Natalie can be a bit over-the-top serious at times.

h

---

Date: Thurs, September 20, 2001, 14:11:24
Posted by: Beautiful Housewife, Deep Distress

Dear Fellow-Dannites,

Glad to hear the Boys are doing fine in their digs, but one has to wonder if they or those close to them lost any friends and/or business associates in WTC! I hope they can cope with these events as well as the rest of us, and let us be glad that for the most part they're safe and sound!

I wonder how much this will inspire them to their next work. It's getting tough for me to listen to their new stuff, though, because much of it seems to remind me of other stuff that I've heard or come across along the way. Whereas, the work they did in the 1970's was mostly inspired by obscure (in terms of marketablity) jazz recordings of the 1950's, their touchstones for the work they do today seems based on obscure pop recordings of the late '70's/early '80's. A pattern has emerged for me that makes me think they like to write songs inspired by songs chronologically 20 years past.

Two examples:

1) Listen to their remake of "Reelin' In the Years" from the live 1994 album and then to "Smoke From a Distant Fire" by Sanford Townsend Band.

2) "West of Hollywood" and "You Can Do Magic" by America. Separated at birth?

I feel kind of like Keith Jarrett must have when he heard what Donald and Walter did to his "As Long As You Know You're Living Yours" on "Gaucho"!

Or, with the 20-year lag time, songs about present-day events will pop on the Steely Dan release of 2021. What say you?

---

Date: Thurs, September 20, 2001, 13:08:50
Posted by: The truth,

Just in case no one here has posted this yet, a couple of interesting notes in this week's (Sept. 22) issue of Billboard: a long interview with engineer Elliot Scheiner in which his work with SD is discussed; and a list of new album sales certifications in which The Nightfly is certified as having finally gone Platinum (1 million). It says this was Fagen's first Platinum album so I guess Kamakiriad has not reached that level yet...

---

Date: Thurs, September 20, 2001, 12:50:05
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

Yes, both the commerical and King of The World are about the effects of nuclear attack on life as we know it. But I don't think the commercial was directly or exclusively respsonsible for KOTW. Sci-Fi books by Bradbury, Heinlein and Miller, the US preocupation with the Civil defense system, and The Reds who might "push the button down," were all influences on Steely Dan and KOTW, if you ask me. Fagen even says as much in New Frontier.

WOW

########################################

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Date: Thurs, September 20, 2001, 02:51:29
Posted by: W1P, Los Angeles

I think it fairly apparent that King of the World was inspired in part by the Lyndon Johnson television ad against Barry Goldwater in which a little girl counting petals on a daisy is blown up by a nuclear weapon. So I think the song has political relevance beyond "sci-fi" There is a commentary on the senselessness of mass destruction and the hopelessness of certain death.

---

Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 19:08:41
Posted by: fezo, homeatlast

quick post cause dinner's getting cold:

musical distractions during these times that truly suck:

The Clash: their joyful anarchy is a welcome contrast to the more recent kind

10000 Maniacs: who'd have thunk it? Plunked from my wife's CD stash when all my (mostly) more raucous stuff just didn't fit. Natalie and the rest are oddly comforting

SD: "Western World" suddenly makes a lot more sense

hang in there everyone

peace

---

Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 17:46:31
Posted by: Michelle, Post-New New Jersey

Good point, Sean. No idea about Steely Dan, but will there be a surge in patriotic, military and gospel music? Will the pendulum swing to the right? Christian radio, here the U.S.A. comes?

Michelle

---

Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 15:51:36
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, MA

I can't see how Don and Walt can concentrate on making an album with all that's going on. Then again, all that's going on might influence them to create their greatest work.

If this all continues much longer, the album will probably get rolled back as would any tour. And maybe smaller venues.

---

Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 14:32:58
Posted by: DrMu, standingtall

Hoops: I couldn't agree more. That's the purpose of an alternative...I heartily recommend that you delete all pertaining post segments, including mine.

Now, briefly on the subject of Steely Dan. Why Spring 2000?

1) They have more song fragments and ideas to work with,

2) They have a band of session/road talents with which they are comfortable.

3) NYC needs the influx of dough

4) Ready for the cool part of the summer to launch a tour

5) AOL/Time-Warner/Ted Turner whatever is dangling a large carrot for a follow-up to the award winning TvN

---

Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 12:22:52
Posted by: hoops, on a brief break

Real quick as I pass by...

"Anon/Not An Anon" debate...boring...not really fun or interesting. People would rather discuss that than discuss SD? Let it pass.

Here's something to ponder, besides the great thoughts by Moonflower, KL and the like: Given how so much of 2VN was set in NYC, I wonder how last week's events will impact the content and lyrics of The Next One.

Also, maybe we should combat the terrorists by helping the NYC economy with an Fall Danfest in Gotham. Buy and use some plane tix (the planes never have been safer now), stay at an NYC hotel, buy lots o' drinks and patronize tangentially Dan artists in the clubs of NYC--all great ways of striking back in a Dan sorta way. Some members of the Dan Orchestras-of-past make their living in the pit orchestras of Broadway. Help out by seeing a show--attendance is down, they need the support.

Back to naptime, i.e. meetings

h

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Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 11:44:49
Posted by: Gina, Sun Mountain

Hello Doc Mu!

With all due respect as well, i wasn't COMPLAINING about the anons but merely specified the people i was addressing and realize there are peaceful lurkers out there who perhaps felt hurt or saddened by my words but they were not the people i was addressing! I have also read several comments on the yellow from americans who showed sentiments kindred to the ones i wrote about, but i don't see anyone attacking them. As far as i can tell now, MajorDudette took the initial heat and then others were scared or intimidated into silence. Or ended up expressing their views and fears in my mailbox :-)

Maybe you should consider the options to what length one is to face anything, walk away and by accident come across this Blue Book and find what Oleander writes. That an incentive bearing constructiveness (is that a word?) to clean whatever slate. And provide the hope i read about in Moonflower's post. So why don't you do the same, Doc Mu? Or at least try, like i did. :-)

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Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 10:01:31
Posted by: DrMu, Quoth the Maven, "Nevermore"

Oleander: That's a good Haig joke!

When will Steely Dan release the Next One? - Spring 2002

With all due respect, I think to come over to the Bluebook to complain about the anon bin Laden's on the Yellow one without facing them directly severly limits one's degrees of separation from said perpetrators...

While Steely Dan, at least in the 70s, left their lyrics open-ended lefts often subtle clues about their view of them and especially viewed when over the whole discography. Warning signs, if you will, about life, evil, folly, and weakness (including theirs). In other words: don't try this at home! The dichotomy between the subject matter of their lyrics and the ear candy sound/production of Steely Dan I ensures that many generations will listen to and talk about their music. To draw an analogy: remember the opening montage and vs. the theme song to Hill Street Blues?

"you will be what you are just the same"

"living hard will take it's toll"

---

Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 09:05:56
Posted by: Gina, Sun Mountain

It is okay, Oleander! Given the circumstances of the week and the strange coincidence and words i used in that posting ... i think anyone would have taken offense :-)

I have no clue if some who visit here, also visit the yellow and to those i'd like to express the sentiments i was not just launching verbal attacks to everyone or your country or deliberately disrespecting what you went through. What stirred things up in the first place, was a response to Majordudette who showed compassion for all others who don't have the luxury we had and have of living in fairly safe corners of the world. To some degree things uttered in anger and grief are to be excused for, however i felt there are limits. I felt i had to oppose those who went into directions just as uncalled for as some felt my writings were, writings which can be seen as a summary of what was discussed here in Europe by a variety in nationalities, americans who reside on european soil included. It was comforting to see they remained calm and wise but just as devastated and one could sense their eagerness to go home to be there for friends and their fellow countrymen/women. The United States of America isn't the only nation hurt by this. Besides of bringing the ones responsible to justice, society is already influenced by the impact and it is so eminent to keep an eye on general opinions for mass hysteria or mass fear is easily fed by tragedies like the one happening last week. With all the more unpleasant irrational actions of anger and violence as a result. I guess i didn't need much either when i was confronted with seeds of ideas that struck me as very unjust all the same. But all of what i said and wrote was talked about here in Europe and it put things in perspective, for me as well .. it can make one rise above the mayhem that could easily follow after recovery from initial shock.

Music has always soothed in times of whatever agony or dismay and listening to the Pretzel Logic CD kind of rang true to my ears for the very first time ever when i listened to it the past week. The vinyl album never meant that much to me besides a few (obvious) tracks. And given the light of events and the dark of human nature ánd Steely Dan transforming their takes and observations into music, i realize they were not only ahead of their time, but also aware of how the world can only fights its demons if acknowledged and known. There are people who consider the music of Steely Dan "evil", because they sense the topics and situations which they might not allow in their lives or way of thinking. Steely Dan even takes it a dimension further, they assess leaving those who listen to call either to value or not and label it. Or not. They show no alternative, no road to go or anything else we can hang on to when questioning as we go ahead in life. So strange to then see Bob Dylan occur who clearly had and has messages in his music to derive comfort and consolation from, as a guiding light in silent prayers and to build the strength of good and positive vibes which i still believe can overrule those of the bad ones. A sense and call for peace has never been stronger in the Sixties and early Seventies, hasn't it?

MajorDudette is 21 years young and even i am still fairly young at age 38. It is a very very soothing idea to see ideals which by some are condemned to being naive and typical youthful are NOT just ideals that will wear off as soon as one is from another generation. Many Steely Dan Fans were teens in those Sixties and Seventies. So you know vividly how it was, back then. Aahh, does the world need your energy again? I think so and i find comfort in it. Some people can stand to work the trenches, others are needed to feed with moral support. I wish all of you good luck in whatever you choose to help those who are touched by last week's event.

---

Date: Wed, September 19, 2001, 00:21:30
Posted by: Not Sure, skate a little lower now

Thanks Hoops! I guess I was jumping the gun a bit. I just don't want to see the blue book turn yellow.

Paige-- I'm just not going to a verbal war with a man named Paige.

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 23:29:24
Posted by: Moonflower, Mattoon, Illinois

Hello Oleander, everyone,

I was talking with Hoopsie on Friday and we are both listening to Dylan's "Love and Theft" as well. Bob is such a poet, a speaker of yesterday, today and tomorrow.

We both purchased the special edition of "Love and Theft." It came with a bonus CD that has an early 1960s version of "The Times Are A' Changin' " that was previously unreleased. It is no cosmic coincidence that this new version of "The Time Are A' Changin' " came out on 9/11/2001, a date that will forever mark change. I don't know of a more appropriate anthem to impart hope for the future.

Peace and love and hope is still there, more than ever—just look in our hearts, in NYC, at the rescuers, the blood givers, those who donate time and money, and all who have done anything to help, even by simply mourning or listening. Only hope and love are real, fear is not. It's just that those evil forces from last week would rather we forget about the hope and the love in our hearts, and instead try to sway us into choosing to live in fear. We need look no farther than our hearts for hope—it's there.

It's no wonder Donald and Walter have cited Dylan as such an influence and inspiration.

Peace and Love always.

Moonflower
aka Mary

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 22:32:42
Posted by: oleander, love, theft, and pain

Well, I did what I should have done in the first place, take a long walk away from the yellow and blue brick roads, and now there's some catching up to do. Good yontif to all those of that persuasion.

Gina--I sincerely apologize for saying that to you. It was an unfortunate offshoot of my fatigue, temporal ineptitude, and pain. BTW, I would have said it to anyone.

Blaise--I'm not quite sure what you meant. But if your conception of "everywhere" is here and St. Al's, your universe is small indeed. Why Diane's thoughts spoke to me is because I have lived through the same things and have a similar take on them and on last week's disaster. Thinking that the world, or at least your faith in it, has been damaged over and over; having a bone-deep love-hate relationship with the land of your birth, or at least how people run it; knowing that you are simultaneously obscenely well off and basically powerless against the power-brokers--and then having it all shaken up in an exponentially worse way.... Conflict, desperation, shame, fear, rage, hurt, solidarity, sadness, confusion--that's how I was struck by what she said.

Yer nutz--it's like anything. Read whatever you want to into it. Or don't.

Paige--thank you for that.

Tom S--My reference to Diane was made with the utmost respect for her, and that is how I see her and know her. Of course the ng, and actually all these venues, are open to all more or less equally. "Maven" means aficionado or connoisseur or expert, not boss. So you all could be construed to be mavens. And don't you think Al Haig made a lovely hostess when, after Reagan got shot, he so graciously reassured us that he was in control?

What consolation I've begun to get in the last few days has been helped along by listening to "Love and Theft," Dylan's new one. You never know what he's going to be up to. And be darned if he's figured out there's some hope since "Time Out of Mind."

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 22:20:42
Posted by: Sam,

No, Hoops, humour isn't dead. Long Live The Dan!!!!

In Los Angeles, "Politically Incorrect" host Bill Maher said the attack has altered his show as well as the country.

"It's going to be a little more serious. I think that's OK. It's OK with you?" he asked the audience, drawing applause. One of the ABC show's four guest chairs was empty to honor commentator Barbara Olson, who died in the plane that hit the Pentagon.

Humor still will have a place, Maher said. Declaring himself "mad at my own government" for failing to protect Americans, he said that "ridicule, sarcasm, belittlement" could be an outlet.

"Those things make us laugh. It doesn't make us bad people," he said.

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 20:02:56
Posted by: Blaise, loss for words

http://steelydan.com/Images/nyc2.jpeg

Btw, Hoops, Paige is a guy. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 18:29:30
Posted by: hoops,

Someone had this quote in their .sig file today and it immediately struck me that this is how Steely Dan would likely look at the current state of affairs:

"If you lose the power to laugh, you lose the power to think."

—Clarence Darrow

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 18:22:07
Posted by: hoops@dandom.com,

The bluebook may be unavailable for a short period this evening around 9 or 10 p.m. NYC time so that I can "break-off" the August 2001 postings into a separate doc. If it is down, try back in 15 minutes.

Merci Beaucoups.

hoops

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 18:16:22
Posted by: hoops, Urbana, IL

Haven't been able to get here or even anywhere else much lately. Sure, like so many of you, I am caught up in this whole terrorist war we are all experiencing in the USA. So that in itself would be distracting. But on top of that, I have an immediate family member recently diagnosed with a life-threatening illness. (Please, I know many of you would be concerned to read that but I sure would be embarrassed to have the bluebook to fill up with the abundance of support that I know Dan Fans to posses, I like low-key.) So my mind is preoccupied quite a bit lately.

Given that, I haven't even been able to keep up with the several posts on the bluebook in the past few days, let alone with what goes on on the SIS GB. My understanding is there is some flaming about anonymous posts there.

When I saw Paige's post of the lyrics, I had no idea that they were by Jethro Tull. Like Bowie, I think JT is talented, but I never really connected with their music as their fans do. So I wasn't sure what the words were about or their source.

So like "Not Sure" I was also wondering what the words Paige meant. I know she doesn't post nonsense--she posts some of the best posts here--but frankly, my mind isn't quite in tune with that sorta stuff right now either. So I was "saving" what she wrote to think about this evening--that it could be about the war, and/or SD or music; maybe I was even going to post, "Hey sorry to be a dummy, but I don't get what Paige posted." From an outsider's perspective, I think "Not Sure" had good intentions and am glad s/he brought it up.

Given what I understand Paige to have experienced with flaming elsewhere, I can empathize with why she replied with what she did. But I doubt it was a personal attack by "Not Sure"--I wondered the same thing "Not Sure" did, although not in those exact words. The Sign In Stranger Guestbook has an "anything goes" style that suits some Dan Fans very well. I know last week, it served as a great and unique touchstone for Dan fans to connect with after the disaster, although clearly it has some times when I can't handle the backbiting. I think here, leave to the SIS GB what is theirs; I don't see a need to carry the argument here. I think maybe that is what Paige meant but I also don't think "Not Sure" was intending carrying it over either--s/he was just wondering like me.

The lyrics Paige posted are interesting to me. Let's leave it at that, IMHO, maybe offer some interpretations, if we have any and move on if we don't. Let's let things lay about whether it should be posted, whether some meant harm or not by posting.

I appreciate your concern, participation and writings.

Best,

hoops

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 17:03:25
Posted by: Paige,

Dear Mr. Sure...

Thanks for your concern. I'm sure that Hoops also appreciates you monitoring the content of the "blue pages." The passage I posted is from a "Passion Play" by Jethro Tull. Good listening.

Of course, I imagine that you have NOT posted your same concerns on the "yellow GB"...especially to all those who feel it necessary to "personally" attack others...None of which (hardly) mention Steely Dan. I dare say that 8 out of 10 posts over there have nothing to do with the boys at all. Yet, you feel it necesary to assume the hall monitor's position here at the calmer blue pages...pointing out the first non-related Steely Dan entry to appear. Nice job, here's your gold star.

Or maybe I'm wrong...

Perhaps there is something deeper here..much deeper. Would this be a personal attack on me from one of the famous anaons? Yes, indeed. Well, Mr. Sure, I'm honored to gain your attention and I am prepared to do battle.

You will note that I always use my "real" name and "real" email address. Please feel free to contact me via that means. I would be more than happy to discuss this with you further. Or....we can move over to the "yellow GB" where this kind of bantering is more appropriate.

One more thing...When do you think STEELY DAN will put out the new one and how 'bout them Dodgers?

There, now I can honestly say that I mentioned Steely Dan in THIS posting.

I look forward to hearing from you.

-Paige

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 13:58:54
Posted by: Karen R. Lippincott, NYC, in spirit

Michelle, Cosmic Wow, Dr. Mu - Thank you all so much for your kindness. I spoke to my Dad in Florida this past Saturday. Sadly, he is still taking this quite hard. However, he has now found words to describe his feelings. On September 11, he felt as if he had been out in the middle of the ocean on a dinghy, when very suddenly his ship went down with all of his shipmates. To make things worse, he played a role in helping to build the ship.

Brother in tears

Look at this chain of sorrows

Stretching all the way from here and down to hell and gone

Yours in Dandom,

Karen

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 13:19:22
Posted by: Not Sure, Where I Am

Hoops! I thought this guestbook was Steely Dan related. May be you should let Paige know this.

---

Date: Tues, September 18, 2001, 01:32:30
Posted by: Paige,

This is the story of the hare who lost his spectacles.

Owl loved to rest quietly whilst no one was watching. Sitting on a

fence one day, he was surprised when suddenly a kangaroo ran close

by.

Now this may not seem strange, but when Owl overheard Kangaroo whisper

to no one in particular, ``The hare has lost his spectacles,'' well, he

began to wonder.

Presently, the moon appeared from behind a cloud and there, lying on

the grass was hare. In the stream that flowed by the grass -- a

newt. And sitting astride a twig of a bush -- a bee.

Ostensibly motionless, the hare was trembling with excitement, for

without his spectacles he was completely helpless. Where were his

spectacles? Could someone have stolen them? Had he mislaid them? What

was he to do?

Bee wanted to help, and thinking he had the answer began: ``You

probably ate them thinking they were a carrot.''

``No!'' interrupted Owl, who was wise. ``I have good eye-sight, insight,

and foresight. How could an intelligent hare make such a silly

mistake?'' But all this time, Owl had been sitting on the fence,

scowling!

Kangaroo were hopping mad at this sort of talk. She thought herself

far superior in intelligence to the others. She was their leader;

their guru. She had the answer: ``Hare, you must go in search of the

optician.''

But then she realized that Hare was completely helpless without his

spectacles. And so, Kangaroo loudly proclaimed, ``I can't send Hare in

search of anything!''

``You can guru, you can!'' shouted Newt. ``You can send him with Owl.''

But Owl had gone to sleep. Newt knew too much to be stopped by so

small a problem -- ``You can take him in your pouch.'' But alas, Hare

was much too big to fit into Kangaroo's pouch.

All this time, it had been quite plain to hare that the others knew

nothing about spectacles.

As for all their tempting ideas, well Hare didn't care.

The lost spectacles were his own affair.

And after all, Hare did have a spare a-pair.

A-pair.

---

Date: Mon, September 17, 2001, 18:18:06
Posted by: Michelle, Not quite the Jersey Beaches

Phil,

This is somehow funny in a Steely Dan way. Did you see Baba Wawa on ABC interview victims? Peter Jennings has been so smart, asking the questions I was thinking and a few I had not. Then Baba interviews the victims and she's not bad, considering how horrendous she can be prying at peoples' emotions. I almost died laughing when after Baba, Peter comes back and said, "Well, I'm glad nobody asked how how they were feeling." What a sarcastic moment. She usually asks how her interviewees feel. Glad she didn't. Otherwise, DUHH!!!! Reminded me when Harry Reasoner and Baba used to go at it. Krishna, Krishna, Hare Krishna. Reasna, Reasna, Hare Reasna.

Michelle

---

Date: Mon, September 17, 2001, 08:56:19
Posted by: Phil, Burlington, WI

This Gumbel guy is an idiot. He dissed Steely Dan when they won album of the year. That was bad enough. But his commentary for the WTC crisis has been ludicrous. Had to say this.

---

Date: Sun, September 16, 2001, 20:29:04
Posted by: Sam,

Glad to hear from Roger about Becker and Fagen.

Was in Boston Market yesterday and they played Janie Runaway and New Frontier within 30 min. of each other. Janie is a family tune and I guess Cousin Dupree is too. Since Tuesday, hearing New Frontier reminded me that both the early 1960s and now the early 1980s are long ago.

God bless!

Sam

---

Date: Sat, September 15, 2001, 14:08:31
Posted by: Dave,

Hope it's acceptable to post about NYC. It's such a tradgedy. I hope you are all safe. Don, Walt and all our friends in NYC are in my thoughts.

Dave

---

Date: Sat, September 15, 2001, 14:08:13
Posted by: Dave,

Hope it's acceptable to post about NYC. It's such a tradgedy. I hope you are all safe. Don, Walt and all our friends in NYC are in my thoughts.

Dave

---

Date: Sat, September 15, 2001, 01:28:58
Posted by: Elaine S., East of Hollywood

I'm glad that Donald and Walter are OK. This is so terrible. We're lucky it wasn't something even far worse. King of The World may eerily ring true but being reminded of it serves no purpose. We shall overcome. Wish there was football this weekend to take our mind off of things for a little while. Billy Graham is definitely not a Steely Dan Fan and a bit creepy if you ask me. Hardly the person for a multi-religion ceremony.

Peace and Safety to you, yours and us all.

Elaine

---

Date: Fri, September 14, 2001, 21:36:02
Posted by: Sean, Quincy, MA

Word from Roger Nichols. Steely Dan is OK! The hope to resume recording tomorrow.

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002611.html

---

Date: Thurs, September 13, 2001, 23:44:43
Posted by: DrMu, standing tall

I appreciate the thoughts of Karen and those who share their feelings when this horror is so personal...

We have seen Evil, the dark twisted side of mankind. In the 70s it seemed like Steely Dan was the only artist to express this in a fashion where one was given guideposts to a side of human nature we didn't want to talk about. The punk artists were clownish buffoons in comparison.

But this Evil, we DO know and will know the faces, where they live, the bunker they play in. Colin Powell is clearing airspace over Pakistan. This is a war. I'm afraid there is the reality.

I do think it's unreasonable to expect people to completely control their emotions under this kind of duress. Blowing off steam is to be expected. I hope in the end we will all be united against a common enemy. It may be a long haul with great sacrifices. The great people of New York have demonstrated their willingness to pull together. Let's follow their lead. God bless.

---

Date: Thurs, September 13, 2001, 22:10:10
Posted by: Lee,

Here today tomorrow gone

To the triage tent in the great beyond

Wherein the angel tangoes with the infidel

—Walter Becker

---

Date: Thurs, September 13, 2001, 18:24:51
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

George, Karen, Michelle, Paige-Well put.

WOW

##################################

---

Date: Thurs, September 13, 2001, 18:09:23
Posted by: Michelle, Princeton Jct., NJ

Karen, your WTC Tribute was like a memorium. I'm so sorry for your loss and that of your father's. What a history! I can understand your feeling a part of you and your dad has died with the WTC. Yet, I know you are thankful that you and your father still having each other. Thank God for that.

George and Paige remind me that we may have been all brought together for a common social interest, but it has formed a foundation for support in a terrible situation. It scares me when I see other forums be so excessively emotional. A little too much like Jenny Jones. It is just so sad. Who's to say what is next or what really belies all that is happening? So few of us truly understand the differences between our culture and those of the Middle East. That is the root of these troubles.

Michelle

---

Date: Thurs, September 13, 2001, 17:15:58
Posted by: George,

Paige: I'm with you regarding the verbal attacks. Just left a mark there, but don't know if anyone will really read it.

All: I'm with you in grief, shock and anger. Sorry for all these innocent people. Unable to decide/say what I think should happen now.

I think the music we like is to an extend full of what we feel. Sorrow, loss, helplessness, anger. May the other side, the edge, the "all_the_same"ness of it help us through these days.

---

Date: Thurs, September 13, 2001, 15:03:14
Posted by: Karen R. Lippincott,

WTC - A Tribute

There are no words to express the grief and anguish I am feeling along with all of you.

Some of you may remember a few months back that I had posted a message entitled "A Steely Dad", happily describing how my father became a fan and our mutual appreciation for "Two Against Nature".

Before he retired in the early '80's, he was employed by the Port Authority of NY & NJ as a graphic designer. His division was responsible for all of the signage for the World Trade Center complex, as well for as the subway stop. We all have very vivid memories of every phase of construction, from ground breaking to the opening celebrations in 1973. I will never forget the pride my father had not only in his own accomplishments but those of every member of the design team. On opening day he was like the proud father of newborn twins, taking my mom, my sister and me from the PATH subway train, through the Grand Concourse, into the Towers and up the high speed evator to show us all of his handiwork. During the Bicentennial, he took us all up to his office on the 64th floor to get a bird's eye view of the Parade of Tall Ships in New York Harbor. He then brought us to the street level of Lower Manhattan to enjoy all of the local festivities.

Together we witnessed the creation and birth of The Twins. Together we shared many joyful moments with them. Together......we watched them perish, along with everyone who gave them life every single day.

Today, my father grieves as if for lost children. I grieve for him, and for the work that would surely have become his legacy. I grieve for the city that has given so much inspiration to so many artists like Donald and Walter. We all grieve for the empty void in our lives which has been forced upon us by an act of horror perpetuated by a faceless gang of thugs!!!

Yours in Dandom,

Karen

---

Date: Thurs, September 13, 2001, 00:42:59
Posted by: Tom S., North of Detroit

Paige: Steely Dan has never been overtly political, but their subversive spirit implies anti-politicism. Now consider the jive asses you speak of. Subversive? Beyond their comprehension. Don't give them a second thought.

Hoops sez: "It's something to contemplate, not dwell on." Huh? What's the diff?

Oleander: The alt group is public domain and doesn't have a designated host. All posters on a level playing field. Ti Bone Angie isn't its "hostess" or "maven." Ti Bone is the alt group's Alexander Haig, its purveyor of filibusters and memes. We had enough, left to the spammers.

Don't think anyone can come up with a subversive song connected to the tragedy in NYC. I can't begin to help on that one. But if it were possible, bet that it would be by Becker/Fagen.

No "Road to Hell" movie? ALL of Bing and Bob's movies were "Road to Hell" movies.

Tom S.

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 21:59:19
Posted by: Paige,

Well, I’ve waited as long as I could.

What’s currently going on the "yellow" board, is nothing less than disgusting. In a time when we need to pull together, there is name calling, partisan politics, and verbal abuse.

I know that emotions are running high right now and the "written word" is often misunderstood. I too go from anger to pain and back to anger again. I don’t know what to think or do at a time like this. I do count my blessings…one of which, is the fact that I was born in this country.

But what I see happening on the other GB turns my stomach. The slightest indication that we should reconsider our Mid-east policies, results in some of the worst abuse I have seen on the Internet.

Perhaps I’m confused. I thought we lived in a country where we demonstrated tolerance for ideas other than out own. Apparently that’s not true. The tossing around of "liberal" and "conservative" as if they were the bow that neatly packages us up into definable categories is petty and immature. It is also intellectually irresponsible.

I don’t think that I could ever burn the American flag…but I’ll tell ya what, I would fight to the death for any American to express his/her disgust with whatever policy he/she sincerely disagrees with….THAT MY FRIEND, IS AMERICA!

Has it occurred to the name callers and verbal abusers that your attacks on others reflect the kind of intolerance that is the seed of what we saw yesterday….individuals who cannot see any other point of view other than their own. That is a "zealot’s" approach…the kind of narrow-mindedness that sat behind the stick of four jet liners yesterday. You may not like the comparison…and it may not be fair given the circumstances. However, your intolerance of others places additional pain on those that are as American as you are.

Finally. If you disagree with someone’s point of view, try this novel approach:

"I strongly disagree with you, and I hope that you will come to understand what "I" sincerely believe is right." Instead, we hear: You bitch! You liberal piece of scum! You fuck-head…just leave our country and take so-in-so with you! Yeah…this is real mature dialogue. Tell me, which approach do you think these terrorists would use? Does it sound familiar?

If you think that these "liberal scum(s)" aren’t as angry as you or don’t feel the same pain you do, your wrong! We all suffer for the innocent lives lost yesterday…and we will never be the same.

Just ask yourselves if the kind of bickering and abuse seen on the GB reduces or increases tension and pain. The very people that you chatted with, mused at their posting, and cared for their health and welfare….only days ago…you now define as evil and accuse of being no better than the terrorists. How dare you?!

You should be ashamed of yourself!

And to all the anons that name-called and abused other members of the board…I’m using my real name and my real email….so flame me!

-Paige

A Proud American

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 18:28:18
Posted by: Michelle, Princeton Jct, NJ

Even though I am almost half-way to Philadelphia from where it happened, the smoke could be seen on the horizon from my office window! Very frightening and terrible. I hope you are all OK.

Michelle

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 18:07:36
Posted by: hoops,

Yer Nuts: All I am saying (and perhaps the others too) is that there are some interesting parallels in "King of the World." It's something to contemplate, not dwell on.

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 18:00:34
Posted by: Yer Nuts!,

Hoops, Oleander and Ti Bon Angie: if you are looking for meaning at a time like this in Steely Dan songs, you are NUTS! King of The World is Sci-Fi entertainment, nothing more.

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 15:21:20
Posted by: hoops,

Good to see Dirk...look out for the Düsseldorf iMovie clips.

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 15:01:06
Posted by: hoops, The Chancellor says it OK for me to post...

The Chancellor of the University here in Urbana says it's ok for us not work and instead to take time to reuminate on events in NYC and DC. (!)

First off, thanks to Blaise for reminding us that Gina's BBQ comment was around 4 am, before the catastrophe. I'm sure Ole didn't catch that and meant well, as did Gina. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, I'm the guy who always says the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Wasn't "The Road To Hell" the one Bing and Bob movie that never got made? Enough of my ramblings...they mean well.

What can I say about NYC and DC? Indeed, Walter and Donald do have an uncanny ability to write realistically about the future. "King of the World" is definitely to their credit. When the O.J. and Nicole and Ron Goldman story first broke, I thought "Everything You Did" could have read like a script from that sadly fucked up couple.

I wouldn't say most SD songs are happy and peppy and bursting with love, but they got that attitude which on a certain level tells us not to accept the sweet-talkin' bullshit from weezils, assholes and demonic forces. There's something damn spiritual about that. If I need something overtly spiritual, I'm more likely to put on 80s Van Morrison. Leonard Cohen somehow bridges some sort of gap I perceive between Van and Dan. Besides, the Dan have that blues thing going and, after all, the blues are a way of letting go.

Anyhoo, just doing whatcha told me, Ms. Chancellor.

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 14:26:06
Posted by: Gina, Maastricht, The Netherlands

no comment.

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 12:16:54
Posted by: Todd Reston, Indiana

The past day's events have been absoutely horrifying. So tragic. Not the end by a long shot.

That post of "King of The World" here reminded me of my piano teacher. He likes Steely Dan but says their music is very cynical. He made a crack, "If you listen to Steely Dan all day, you'll end up depressed." "King of The World" is right on about what happened and what could be. Yet, I can't think of any songs by Steely Dan that are hopeful. Maybe he is right. Maybe most Steely Dan songs are all depressing if you think about them.

Todd Reston

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 10:57:51
Posted by: Randy,

For those who might not be aware, I do some freelance work for the official Crosby, Stills & Nash Website. CSN site webmaster Stephen Barncard and I have arranged a special "bulletin board" forum wherein people who would like to discuss the hi-jacking tragedy and share their feelings can do so.

To reach the forum, scroll down after reaching the opening page via the address below and click on the 'special forum' link:

www.crosbystillsnash.com

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 10:25:10
Posted by: Blaise, somewhere up in Canada

oleander - You are understandably shaken at this hour but I just feel it's important to point out that the Gina post you are refering to in your blast there was clearly written BEFORE the events in question. Please, people try and remain calm. I could say just as well, about your reposting of diane's thoughts everywhere, that this is no time to underline and reinforce preferences associated with petty "dandom" politics, reiterating the obvious. This strikes me as irrelevant at this moment. Those are nicely put words nevertheless. Thank you for your understanding.

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Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 02:43:11
Posted by: oleander, still not asleep

Ti Bon Ang(i)e, hostess of the alt alt newsgroup and maven of the alt ng said it beautifully:

I was born after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and lived in America, in fear of nuclear attack, during my entire childhood.

I suffered the assassination of a President, then Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy.

I experienced the rending of our nation and the killings of my generation as the Vietnam war wore on and on.

I lost all faith in my government following Watergate.

Three Mile Island.

An illegal election.

Thousands of moments of sadness and shame because of things I experienced as an American.

I suffered all these things along with all my peers, my generation, my family, my fellow Americans.

But I have never lived through a day as horrible as this one. This is not just an attack on America. It's a complete paradigm shift that will have an effect all over the world.

This is the day the world, as I knew it, ended.

This is the beginning of a New World, and I don't know how any of us will survive it.

Hello one and all
Was it you I used to know
Can't you hear me call
On this old ham radio
All I got to say
I'm alive and feeling fine
If you come my way
You can share my poison wine

CHORUS:
No marigolds in the promised land
There's a hole in the ground
Where they used to grow
Any man left on the Rio Grande
Is the king of the world
As far as I know

I don't want your bread
I don't need your helping hand
I can't be no savage
I can't be no highwayman
Show me where you are
You and I will spend this day
Driving in my car
Through the ruins of Santa Fe

CHORUS

I'm reading last year's papers
Although I don't know why
Assassins cons and rapers
Might as well die
If you come around
No more pain and no regrets
Watch the sun go brown
Smoking cobalt cigarettes
There's no need to hide
Taking things the easy way
If I stay inside
I might live til Saturday

(Becker/Fagen, 1973)

love and kisses

diane

---

Date: Wed, September 12, 2001, 02:30:44
Posted by: oleander, sleepless in the south

All you New Yorkers and Washingtonians, please check in and let us all know how you're doing.

Horrific day. And just the beginning.

I find it astonishingly tasteless to complain about being flamed and using the metaphor of "throwing a bbq" when hundreds, maybe thousands, are suffering horribly from real live burns, and many others threw themselves from 80 floors up rather than burn to death.

Saying kaddish and unable to sleep,

oleander

---

Date: Tues, September 11, 2001, 11:56:40
Posted by: Dirk, Germany

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,

It's easy if you try,

No hell below us,

Above us only sky,

Imagine all the people

living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,

It isnt hard to do,

Nothing to kill or die for,

No religion too,

Imagine all the people

living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,

I wonder if you can,

No need for greed or hunger,

A brotherhood of man,

imane all the people

Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,

but Im not the only one,

I hope some day you'll join us,

And the world will live as one.

---------------------------------------------

Can't believe what's goin on ... all that

innocent lifes ... I'm with you.

All the best from Germany

Dirk

---

Date: Tues, September 11, 2001, 11:18:40
Posted by: Paige,

Suddenly, my personal problems don't amount to very much.

-P

---

---

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Date: Tues, September 11, 2001, 04:58:31
Posted by: Gina, Sun Mountain

must say the sun worked overtime on my tan while i was caught up in reading this Blue Book. i even thought the neighbours were throwing a BBQ but i myselves was turning into a giant overdone steak expressing smoke signals that would have served well as in protesting against the Last of the Mohicans to go extinct on the world. if only they'd been there for the writing on the wall :-)

thanks to everyone for building this Steely Dan Bridge across the wild rivers in an even wilder concrete jungle.

and thanks to the RLJ board i'll be expecting a UK "the making of Aja" copy from an english RLJ friend.

i ain't shaking anything!

---

Date: Tues, September 11, 2001, 02:01:53
Posted by: Steveedan, Los Angeles, California

Hi John -

That is an interesting post. I have not yet seen Rock Star. When I do, I will let you know.

But, for the record, I don't believe that any Steely Dan tribute band could spoil ticket sales. Die hard fans are just that. They might not see a SD tribute band, but they will NEVER miss a real Dan show, unless it is totally unavoidable.

Steveedan (MFM for the Steely Fan Band)

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Date: Tues, September 11, 2001, 01:49:33
Posted by: KD, Chi

Dread Zeppelin is awesome. I saw them when I was 12, so I should know. Everyone else is crap. I should know.

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Date: Tues, September 11, 2001, 00:11:39
Posted by: John, Erie, PA

A while ago, there was a debate about cover and tribute bands like SteelyFanBand, The Steely Damned, and Stealin' Dan. With this new Mark Wahlberg hit flick, "Rock Star," the media is giving attention to tribute and cover bands. Associated Press has an article by John Jurgensen that ran in yesterday's paper. The headline reads, "Rock Imitators Please Crowds and Provide Fodder for New Film." I haven't seen the movie. I guess Wahlberg plays the lead in a cover band, a position that is perhaps the counterpart to Bob Tedde of the Steely Damned. Eventually he snags the attention of the real band. The real band kicks out their lead and replaces him with Wahlberg. The movie is based on a true story from 1996. This guy was in a Judas Priest cover band in Ohio and got the attention of Judas Priest. Three months later, the cover band's lead was fronting Judas Priest.

The article talks about several different cover/tribute bands. The bands tell how they became popular, how the bands they cover react to them and what motivates these people who could probably do their own stuff, but instead choose to cover others.

No Steely Dan cover bands are discussed but Led Zepagain, a band I believe was at a recent Danfest, is mentioned. Sabra Cadabra is a Black Sabbath cover band. Tom Capobianco portrays Black Sabbath's Bill Ward. He says, "This music is the soundtrack to my life. If imitation is the greatest form of flattery, then this is adulation."

Metallica had one of their tribute bands open for them. An Aerosmith cover band is so well-liked by Aerosmith that they are officially endorsed and can use Aerosmith logos and ads. Even still, some Aerosmith fans feel the official cover band is a rip off of the original. One quote is "Some fans feel it's a ripoff of Aerosmith. It goes very deep with the fans and the fans get protective."

Another quote is from Rock writer, Dave Marsh who says, "I think it's a psychological problem in our society. There's such a fanatical need to be around a celebrity that being around a fake celebrity becomes desirable too." He also believes that they hurt the real bands, by taking away ticket sales.

Then the article talks about Elvis impersonators and that Jackie Wilson started out doing Elvis impersonations. It says more cover bands came on the scene when the real bands started playing major arenas rather than intimate clubs. The demise of real band, like Led Zeppelin, also created interest in a cover band.

Tribute City is a web site that lists 410 cover bands. The Abba cover band, Bjorn Again, even played Royal Albert Hall. Some tribute bands are dedicated to past bands while others try to cash in on current popular acts. Genie in a Bottle is a Christine Aguilera cover act and Human Clay pays tribute to Creed.

There is some interesting points. But Marsh seems overly concerned about cover bands. I wonder what cover bands such as SteelyFanBand, The Steely Damned, and Stealin' Dan think about the movie "Rock Star" and some of the opinions in this news story.

John

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 23:23:11
Posted by: Sisyphus,

Sisyphus, Long Gone

He rests, thoughts once considered

And he sees himself not

In the reflection of time

Long gone

He stands, with callused hands

Head bowed to the Gods

And his inevitable purpose

Long gone

He touches, a familiar stone

Stained with blood forgotten

And his lofty expectations

Long gone

The slope climbs quickly

As the stone rolls on

And His sweat-beaded brow, in time

Long gone

He reaches the panicle

Under the incomprehensible weight

Only to ponder, what was

Long Gone

He rests, thoughts once considered

He sees himself not

The stone reflects his time

Long gone

And the Gods, who once waited

Long gone.

---

Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 23:01:00
Posted by: DrMu, Steely Dan = Nostradamus?

Lee: Yes. The guy could be a Gary Condit type. I was going to say sleazy Gary Condit-type, then realized that would be redundant. The Babylon Sisters could be voluptous blondes, mayber even identical twins, or could simply look like twins, with braided hair and muchos T&A. But the plural has a meaning. Of course, the guy could simply be a master of his domain loser with a spyglass and an imagination, but...

"Don't go for that cotton candy" - The Sisters, at least in this song, are not prostitutes.

"San Francisco Show and Tell" Lee, you're a genius. I've been trying to picture them on a road trip to the Bay area for over 20 years. D&W musta been laughing their rears off when they came up with that one

"Distant lights from across the bay" Gotta be Santa Monica Bay then looking south or possiblly towards Catalina Island.

"We'll jog with the show folk on the beach" They took a right turn at the end of Sunset Blvd and headed toward Malibu...act like I belong here.

"Here come those Santa Ana winds again" A dose of reality. The wind disturbs his spyglass and the fantasy? Musses that hair of the sisters as they drive with the top down, sending them into a less than receptive mood? The whole scenario, as is the album, is about style rather than substance, and style is fickle goddess subject to swirling whims and winds...

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 22:18:46
Posted by: Chips, in chat

click on my name and come on in!

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 22:14:36
Posted by: Lee,

For my first post, my take on Babylon Sisters: I view it as the story of a threesome between the narrator and the two "Babylon Sisters".

On to the lyrics, and regarding the jungle music line and racism, remember that the writers are telling a story, not necessarily giving vent to their attitudes. Plus, there is the line "just until we're out of town". If the narrator were racist, he would not want to listen to it even "out of town".

This is no one night stand
It's a real occasion

To me, this refers to the fact that this will not be just an "average" one night stand. No, it will not be just a one night stand, it will be a threesome, "a real occasion".

Babylon sisters shake it
Babylon sisters shake it
So fine so young
Tell me I'm the only one

This is a bit of knowing and witty self-deprecation. "Yeah, lie to me, baby, and tell me I'm the only one", fully knowing that his being "the only one" would be as impossible as could be with THESE two women.

Here come those Santa Ana winds again

The famed hot winds in L.A., directly from the desert, and yes, with the scenario written about in this song, things will surely be getting hot.

San Francisco show and tell

I am not totally sure, but with two women, and with every straight man's fantasy about to be played out, I think that the San Francisco show and tell (San Francisco being associated with gay culture) is the Babylon Sisters sexually performing on or with each other.

Well I should know by now
That it's just a spasm
Like a Sunday in T.J.
That it's cheap but it's not free

Obviously, in Tijuana, things are cheap, but never free, and I think the narrator is referring to the fact that this was a "cheap" scene, i.e., sleazy, crude, etc. And maybe the line about not being free refers to the fact that these may be hookers. But, this may also refer to the possibility that even if the girls are not hookers, the narrator pays in the end, through his soul, through the cheapening of himself.

That I'm not what I used to be
And that love's not a game for three

This is sort of the punchline. He's getting a little older, without that youthful ability to perform at the merest thought of sex, realizes that he probably will not perform up to the standards required when one has sex with two women, and that he should not go forward.

My friends say no don't go
For that cotton candy
Son you're playing with fire
The kid will live and learn
As he watches his bridges burn
From the point of no return

His friends warn him that if he goes forward, he's "playing with fire", and maybe sex with one woman will never be satisfying again (once you try two, one will never do). Ah, but he does not listen, burns his bridges (from normal sex, the advice of friends, and his own intuition) and goes for it!

That's it. I hope it is not too long.

---

Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 20:59:17
Posted by: DrMu, hide in here

Two Against Nature would ROCK live. Heck, I'd like to hear the Neville Brothers do it. New Frontier is made for a snappy live rendition as well.

Michelle: But you have to admit that the intro. montage with the sunr rising (or is it setting - it's been 10 years since I've seen it) with FM over the top is by far the best part of the movie. A good video really.

Reminds me that be best part of the movie Bright Lights Big City is the end sequence (for more than one reason) when the sun's coming up and the Fagen's remake of the Reed tune can be heard as the sun rises leading right into Century's End over the credits. The production values are far superior to FM (produced by Sidney Pollock), but Michael J. Fox was too earnest for the lead. Nice touch though trading the sunglasses for the loaf of bread.

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 18:07:49
Posted by: Michelle,

Uretha's right. NOBODY but The Donald could sing, "It was not my oowwwnn." Know that the crowd would applaud wildly upon Donald singing it that way, just like "You got to shake it baby" got so much applause on Babylon Sisters.

Happy Hour didn't inspire me as much as I hoped. How about Tom "Great" Scott? He also plays the solo on McCartney's That's What The Man Said. Great sax, sappy song.

Aja and Gaucho? Two perfect albums. No discounting of either.

FM was a pathetic movie unworthy of Steely Dan's theme song. It was a 100-minute sitcom episode. So many Dan songs would make great movies, but Dan songs always appear in movies that are not up to snuff.

Tomorrow.

Michelle

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 17:30:05
Posted by: Urethra Franklin,

Cosmic - Walter singing "Everything You Did"??!! No Way! ONLY DF can sing "It was not my oooowwwn"

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 17:15:03
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

A lot of good tracks Randy, but don't think most will happen.

Two Against Nature is kewl but I doubt they could or would want to pull it off live. A potential train wreck.

Time Out of Mind is what I have been hawking here.

I Got The News would be great but since they didn't discuss it in the Aja DVD I don't think they like that song.

Everything You Did could be a Walter song.

I think if anyone brings up Second Arrangement again, they'll deck the person. They could have cleaned it up and put on the box but they chose not to. I think B/F's message is to never speak of that song again. History. Lost forever.

Lucky Henry is great but you must have missed the potty line scene when the other 11TOW songs were performed.

The Nightfly is too much of a minor Fagen song. Won't ever be live, especially when it seems like Donald is trying to save his voice for the hits.

Wow

#####################

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 15:51:42
Posted by: Randy,

"Overlooked" Steely Dan songs that haven't been (but should be) played live:

1. "Two Against Nature"

2. "Time Out Of Mind"

3. "I Got The News"

4. "Everything You Did"

5. "The Second Arrangement"

6. "Lucky Henry"

7. "The Nightfly"

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 15:01:17
Posted by: Cosmic Wow, Wowwee!

Exactly my point! Time Out of Mind is PEFECTION AND GRACE! Time Out of Mind should replace Deacon Blues on next tour.

The horn version of Rikki in 96 was nice and mellow. Sure, it had a different feel, but it too was fine. Another I'd like to hear next tour.

WOW!

########################

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 13:19:44
Posted by: Paul M., Toronto

Deacon Blues is a perfect song and recording. That's a song they will have to play every tour. The Quintessinal Steely Dan Masterwork. There was an interview where Becker was asked if there was a moment where they knew they had done something incredible. Walter immediately responded that it had to be when he first heard the final version of Deacon Blues. For me, it ranks up there with Miles' Kind of Blue. Time Out of Mind is also perfect in a similar way.

I also was disappointed in Rikki from the 1996 tour. I prefer the 1996/2000 version of Do It Again to the 1972 version. But when I heard them play Rikki in 1996, I thought it was unwieldly and never quite gained the momentum the original had. An audience recording from 1996 confirmed this for me. Rikki 1996 wasn't tight enough.

That Purdie/Beatles stuff is sure something.

I think if Aja had come out before Gaucho, we'd all be discussing how Aja was an attempt to recreate the magic of Gaucho. Face it, both albums are great, but Gaucho will always be compared to Aja since Aja was first.

Paul

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 10:43:43
Posted by: Superfly, Austin, TX

RJ asked if any of the Beatles had commented on the Dan...

I remember McCartney remarking that AJA was one of his favorite albums. He specifically mentioned that "Deacon Blues" was one of the greatest songs he'd ever heard.

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 09:25:44
Posted by: Randy,

Hoops (and anyone else reading)-

My choice of words ("defected") was merely an example of my endlessly sarcastic and ascerbic sense of humor. Nothing was meant by it other than the fact that I normally post to the 'Sign In Stranger' guestbook. I will add though that I do find the "other" guestbook slightly less focused, i.e. more "off topic" more of the time, and more generally antagonistic than this one... I simply don't have time to peruse through more than one guestbook on a regular basis. Perhaps I will "defect" to this guestbook permanently as I am aware that the more considerate and thoughtful people (Aja, Snakehips, etc.) also post here.

On another note, here's yet another post (off topic, no less) from the other guestbook that I wrote a while ago (for those who give a shit):

Steely-folk:

Don't know if any of you folks here are interested, but I was a regular contributor to the Crosby, Stills & Nash Website from '96-'99, writing concert reviews, commentaries, book reviews, and interviews. I also did a piece for producer/engineer Stephen Barncard (who has worked for CSN, CSNY, Van Morrison, Joe Cocker, David Bromberg, The Grateful Dead, etc.), which can be found at:

http://www.barncard.com/barncards/sqb/SQBhtml/sqb_RandyBio.html

(The photo was several years ago when I was sans beard.) Barcard has now made the old site I worked for the "official" one, and I'll be doing some new contributions in the near future. The whole arrangement was a great deal as I became friends with David Crosby (he calls me "Nightfly" - he's also big fan of Steely Dan) as well as getting to meet Stills and Nash. I'm also a "moderator" in the questions forum, so when people write in to the website with questions about the band, I'm the one who answers them. My last piece for the old site even had a Steely mention... Check it out:

http://www.alpha.nl/CSN/frames.html

Once you're there, you've got to click on the red "Site Specials" button (on the left) and then scroll down to "THE CSN&Y REUNION: Read this special website article." Hope you dig it...

WE NOW RETURN TO OUR SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING

"I'm Lester the Nightfly / Hello Baton Rouge / Won't you turn your radio down / respect the 7 second delay we use..."

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 01:28:23
Posted by: xzczc, asds

glad the beatles-purdie thing is settled.

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Date: Mon, September 10, 2001, 00:34:45
Posted by: Elaine S., Covina, Calif.

Rikki Don't Lose That Number is Steely Dan's biggest hit. But I was slightly disappointed in the live version during the 1996 show. I am surprised that they didn't attempt to rework it some more and include it in the 2000 shows. Thank you Steve, W1P and Angel for the clarification on the early 1990s So. Cal. areas shows. Steve, I saw several limos and must have missed the sign on yours when I passed thru. See you at the next Dan Fan fest, later.

Elaine

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Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 20:26:21
Posted by: hoops,

Tito, bring me a tissue...

I was looking around my storage boxes all afternoon for an interview from the Arts section of the "Chicago Tribune," some Sunday in August 1992. I couldn't find it but maybe one of you librarians can. In it, there's this interview with Fagen where he talks about the New York Rock and Soul Revue. It also includes a great photo of the line-up including Boz Scaggs, Michael McDonald, Phoebe Snow, and of course, Walter Becker. The interviewer may have been Dave Kot of the "Chicago Tribune" and "Rolling Stone." (BTW: I think Kot is too caught up in 80s stuff and a jerk who doesn't like Steely Dan.)

Aside from the Revue, Donald talks about "Gaucho" and how the problems around them at that time, (MCA and Warners fighting over the record, Walter's personal problems, and the erased track, among others) made that one very tough. A Fagen quote I remember was something like, "I get chills every time I hear that album." It doesn't bring back a lot of fond memories for him and the gist is that it was a chapter in his life that he'd like to forget.

So regarding Paige's "Aja and Gaucho" discussion, it's pretty understandable why "Gaucho" is a little cold by comparison. As someone else brought up, given Walter's partial indisposal, it's obvious why it might have a touch more Fagen-solo feel to it. Connect-the-dots between "Aja," "Gaucho," and "Nightfly," and I think it's clear how some people feel there was a transition to a Fagen solo career. Of course, vocals debate aside, Walter's album also clearly proves that Steely Dan was definitely NOT just Donald Fagen.

An inset box next to the article features the interviewer's mini reviews of each Steely Dan album. "Gaucho" is briefly described something like "bloodless and icy." Now I do think that is too extreme. Like Paige, I think "Gaucho" was indeed a runner up classic. Of course, "Aja" is The Album that seems to go past being Steely Dan's most popular album into something that is legendary, that seemingly everyone knows, that remains a best seller, like Van Morrison's "Moondance," Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of The Moon," Elton John's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road," Eagles' "Hotel California," and Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours," just to name a few. Albums that seem almost bigger than the artist, or at least are their zenith in terms of BOTH mass popularity and quality.

Kaizad I: I agree, "Time Out of Mind" seemed to be a forgotten hit for a long time. But through the years, I don't think I saw a lot of requests for "Time Out of Mind" in the greater Dandom either. It's always "Dr. Wu" and "Haitian Divorce" that seem most requested but not yet played live.

µ: Becker's "Lucky Henry?" SUBLIME.

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Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 19:26:32
Posted by: Tito, NYC, MSG

Did you see? Michael Jackson re-enterred the ring at MSG Fri. nite. To reclaim his title as King of Poop. A gala celebrating his 30 years as a solo performer. His new producer's name is Jerkin, clearily another nod to Jackson performing solo. Jerkin said, "Michael doesn't do anything small." Right, at least not anymore or he'd be in big trouble. $30M for his new album? Jail-bait and bail included?

The extravaganza included Elizabeth Taylor and his parents at his side, an opening number by Whitney Houston, Liza Minnelli performing her mum's Somewhere Over the Rainbow, Marlon Brando muttering, Quincy Jones, Shaq, Samuel Jackson, Yoko Ono, Eminem (thank god he's not establishment), N'sync, Gladys Knight and Destiny's child. Michael tearfully sang, "You Rock My World."

How come Steely Dan wasn't part of it? Oh, that's right, SD doesn't do freak shows. There must be a Steely Dan song somewhere in all of this.

---

Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 18:52:43
Posted by: aMAEzed,

By the way, I wonder how those chimes sound on the dts 5.1 version.

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Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 18:50:46
Posted by: aMAEzed,

You noticed the Santa Anna windchines too, eh? Multiply the time it took them to get the windchimes perfect by all the rest of the album. It's clear why a Steely Dan album takes years to make. No album before it's time. That's our Steely Dan.

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Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 17:02:55
Posted by: Paige,

I have to agree with Hoops here...not that I always do.

I have always felt that the "music" of Steely Dan is a given. It is what drew me to the band in the first place...(not unlike physical attraction being the first step in a realtionship). It wasn't until many years later that a good friend of mind started pointing out the lyrics to me. I believe it was the line "Spanish Kissin', See It glisten." When he told me that he thought it was about "oral sex"...well being young, I was intrigued. We both started listening to the words and we were hooked. Suddenly it wasn't just the "physical attraction" (music), it was the "personality" (lyrics/story) or the content of the work.

I see no reason why anyone should say that the music is more important or that the lyrics are more important...I think it's an absurd issue. All I was saying is that I found the lyrics of Steely Dan, the most interesting aspect of their work.

The music...Geeze, what can I say? Even if they didn't have such interesting and literary lyrics, they would still be an important part of my music menu..(well, that and Tull).

One more point...

The other night I listened to some Steely Dan on headphones for the first time in years. In fact...the last time I used headphones when listening to the Dan was before this whole "remastering" kick started.

I gotta tell you...I was blown away at some of the sounds I had never heard before. I've never heard the wind chimes on Babylon Sisters

...right after the Santa Ana winds line. I now feel that I should only listen to the Dan on headphones...it's a great new experience for me.

So, you see, I do love the music and I'm discovering new worlds in this arena all of the time. It's a total package that we all have great admiration for.

-Paige

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Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 16:33:20
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

WOW!!!!!!!

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Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 16:14:07
Posted by: hoops, The Hoopsatorium

To respond to gypsyqueeninafairytale's comments, what's great about Steely Dan is that the lyrics and the music can indeed stand on their own . Witness all the great instrumental versions of Steely Dan songs which tell their own story without any words. Then look how we all dicuss the lyrics. While SD music and lyrics can be dissected separately, they also form something greater than their parts when mated. But dissecting too much does steal some of the mystery...who knows why some of this is great, it just works and is all the better for it. Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, etc., all have some great lines that make no sense. As Van has demonstrated, there's that "Inarticulate Speech of The Heart." Of course, then there's Leonard Cohen where every word is there for a reason.

I do dislike literal and supposedly definitive and ultimate intereprations of songs. But Paige has written is very interesting interpretation, bound to spur others on to new conclusions and interpretations.

First of all, I completely agree that many casual listeners mis-take the position of Becker and Fagen's songs. They are an observer telling a story, leaving the listener to draw their own conclusions. I've had some extra-moral fundamentalists tell me that songs such as "Babylon Sisters" are immoral and glorify hard living. SD is just poking fun. It's interesting to note how some people wrote that "Cousin Dupree" was offensive because one cousin wanted to do another cousin. (Remember the "disturbed" lady on VH-1?) Offensive? If so, why is it that some states permit cousins to marry? Are they saying those marriages are offensive? Maybe these married cousins are saying, "Yahooo! About time there was a love song about us!" No, once again, Becker and Fagen are painting a slice of life, and of course, we fans all know they are giggling under their breath at the inconsistencies of US society.

What else floors me, is how the same people, family, relatives who are offended by songs like "Babylon Sisters," have no problem watching a TV show with the same story line, be it vintage "Hawaii Five-O" or "Barettta:" to today's "Law and Order" or the new "Reba" show. It's a double standard. Or how these same people will let their kids listen to Britney Spears and the like. While Becker and Fagen mock cheap sex or at least laugh absurdity of our being draw to it. Spears attempts to sell it. Way too often, mainstream media has a double-standard for Steely Dan. Many of you will remember the pre-Grammy show where Tony Danza commented to D + W that their songs were also, controversial. To which Walter replied, "Tony, They're *all* dirty." Indeed!

Regarding the "jungle music" thing; suuposedly that is a jazz term dating to the 20s and 30s. Is it racist? I don't know, but if it is, it's inidcative of the character saying it, who I imagine to be some straightlaced, middle-aged guy who would still get down with a prositute. Interesting too that many think the prostitutes in this story are black.

I have to agree that I thought for a long time that Fagen was singing "Love's not a game for free." "Love's not a game for three" could be interpretted as saying, hard to find love in a three-way sex scene.

Just a few random thoughts.

---

Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 15:38:09
Posted by: gypsyqueeninafairytale,

No,actually,the music is the most interesting thing about the DAN or any band,for that matter.

Nothing sucks more,than a songwriter who spends all his or her time worrying about the lyrics, and then the music ends up sounding like shit.

Besides,I think it was John Lennon who said to Dylan,that its not the lyrics,its the way you sing them..or something like that.

Ayanna

---

Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 14:32:03
Posted by: Paige,

Geeze, Hoops. You are dong a lot of work for me.

Sorry for the long post. I have already heard form a few people on the subject of Babylon Sisters. I can see where some of my interpretations ould use some adjustments.

I post these long winded deconstrustions, not to establish what I think is the only interpretation. They are to stimulate discussion on what I beleive is the most interesting aspect of Steely music...that is, the lyrics. Oten, they do.

I would like to think guestbooks (like this one) will fulfill thier intent by focusing on the subject...in this case....Steely Dan. I think that this particular guestbook has the greatest potential of achieving this.

Thanks for all your work, Hoops.

-Paige

"Flying too close to the sun"

---

Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 13:20:14
Posted by: Paige L.A.,

Babylon Sisters

The various interpretations of "Babylon Sisters" on the Oleander site at http://home.earthlink.net/~oleander1/Index.htm are very interesting. I was particularly amused by the amount of time many spent on trying to figure out the actual direction the narrator's car was traveling (taken directly from the lyrics) and where he/friend end up. If you are at all familiar with LA or SF streets (or California geography, in general) you can get pretty messed up trying to figure it out. One of the interpretations that I found intriguing was the view that the Babylon Sisters were actually terms used to describe Los Angeles and San Francisco (sort of competing sisters of the same genre). I must admit that there is some merit in this angle. All of this is aside, I found myself in agreement mostly with the general ideas expressed by Crazy Zee concerning this opening track of Gaucho.

I've always felt that Steely Dan, more than most, utilizes a literary style, which appears to magically combine "specific ideas" (as in descriptive verse) while never losing sight of the "general concept" (as in theme) of the song. Now, of course, these two tools of style are not exclusive or in opposition to each other. Quite the contrary, the "specifics" are the bricks of the "general" structure.

No, what I find interesting is their ability to be so concise in their writing. Often this is done using "references" (that most would consider obscure). A complete story can be held in just one reference. We have this sort of unspoken identification to the song when we recognize a well-applied (and often obscure) reference.

Babylon Sisters is one of those typical Steely tunes; where the theme does not change…the characters rarely grow or otherwise, learn from their experiences. This is why I tend to see SD songs as "observational." There are no lessons to be learned here. It is merely a view of the human condition through a pair of bifocals…one being cynical and the other, mischievously sardonic. In fact, now that I think about it, many of the characters in SD songs never realize any personal growth or indeed, find their way to a healthier mental or emotional state. This is true "angst. Your greatest (and never-ending) fear that things (or life) will not get any better becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as you drag yourself through another day. And it is here that we find the narrator of Babylon Sisters.

Simply put, this is a story of an individual who is yearning for emotional fulfillment and seeks out prostitutes in a vain and pathetic attempt to achieve it. He knows that whatever fulfillment he gains is only temporary. But he can't help himself. Not unlike a drug, he cannot avoid seeking the temporary satisfaction that this exercise brings to him. It becomes an obsession, which is fueled by his ability to set aside reality through his idealistic fantasies. The prostitutes are the stage and he is the writer, actor and director of the fantasy that is his life. He is doomed to repeat the same scenes over and over again.

Drive west on Sunset to the sea
Turn that jungle music down
Just until we're out of town

This first section seems to be the most troublesome for SD fans. Many felt (and some still do) that the second line is somehow a "racist" remark…."turn that jungle music down." A lot has been made of this on the Oleander site with most defending the boys. It's anybody's guess. Let's suppose that "jungle music" does indeed refer to African-American music. The meaning of words and our acceptance or rejection of them, are in constant flux…they evolve. That aside...I personally believe that "jungle music" refers to any music "with a beat" which tends to dominate every "new wave" from the "Beat" generation to today's most popular rap and hip hop tracks. Anyway, one poster defended Steely Dan saying that it wasn't racist, yet indicated that the prostitute who had the music up too loud was likely African-American. Indeed, the social mores that still exist are not comfortable with interracial couples and may cause our narrator to act with caution as he heads "out of town."

But all of this is beside the point to the story…
Our narrator is out on the streets once again and has picked up a much younger (or at least younger looking) prostitute and they proceed "west on Sunset" perhaps to a more discreet locale just outside of town.

This is no one-night stand
It's a real occasion
Close your eyes and you'll be there
It's everything they say
The end of a perfect day
Distant lights from across the bay

Well, here our narrator wastes no time in diving straight into his fantasy that this engagement (with the prostitute) is not fleeting, but the real thing…traditional love, as it were with all the romance that he was taught to believe in. I think that he is telling his "date" to close her eyes and she'll be there…yet, I would rather believe that he is saying this line to himself. It fits in better within his world of denial. The prostitute has no interest whatsoever in this fantasy. She is probably not even fully aware of what the narrator is thinking. Regardless, she could care less what the narrator may be dreaming…he is just another "john" to her. This of course, makes the song even sadder as we begin to speculate that the narrator is sorrowful loser. But for a moment, he can escape and imagine the romance of seeing the "distant lights from across the bay."

Babylon sisters shake it
Babylon sisters shake it
So fine so young
Tell me I'm the only one

Well, this is pretty straightforward here. Babylon sisters refers to all prostitutes…so fine and so young. What stands out here is the line: "Tell me I'm the only one." This is another indication that our narrator is in search on one true love…and freely fantasizes about it.

Here come those Santa Ana Winds again

I love this line. It is one of those references that is not instantly known by the general listening public. In addition, it is used as a symbol of the narrator's slim hold on reality. The Santa Ana winds are a recurring event in Southern California. They are constant and unavoidable as is his awareness of his "real" existence." They winds blow warm all afternoon and make one feel lethargic…a life of lethargy slowly eroding away.

(Take note of Donald's voice at the very end of the word "again." You can almost feel the narrator's angst. Also, listen for the wind chimes at the end of the line…best heard on headphones.)

We'll jog with show folk on the sand
Drink kirschwasser from a shell
San Francisco Show and Tell

Simply more of the fantasy…sharing the imaginary world of romance and a love that seems to escape him. All of these lines refer to hobnobbing with the "beautiful people" while sharing ego-driven stories of their successes. This wards off the "demons of failure."

Well I should know by now
That it's just a spasm

After so many episodes of this misguided search, the narrator knows what the eventual outcome will be. He will be alone again. But more to the point, he also knows that these forays into the night are a product of "dis-ease." It is his drug…his obsession that he has no control over. He is in a battle with his emotions, one that he cannot win.

Like a Sunday in T.J.
That it's cheap but it's not free

While he is "driven" by the spasm in the search for love, he knows that his activities are only superficial. Tijuana is not a traditional Mexican town. It exists for the "one-day" tourists that come to buy cheap imitations of the true Mexican culture. It is not "real" in the sense that Mexican culture is commercialized. It may be a romantic "one-day" getaway for our narrator, but it's still not real.

The second line refers to the fact that there is an emotional cost being paid by the narrator. Yes…It may be cheap…a cheap imitation of the real thing (love), but it's not free. Knowing that it is not the "real thing" increases his sense of hopelessness and dread.

That I'm not what I used to be
And that love's not a game for three

There was a time when the narrator believed in love…believed that if he did everything he was supposed to, fulfillment would be his. He has lost the "sense of possibility" that he once had.

Okay…I'm changing a word here. I know it says "three." However, I hear the word "free." So instead of "…love's not a game for three," I'm hearing (and believe) the line is "…love's not a game for free." I know what the lyric sheets say, etc. etc. But tell me you don't here the word "free." Even with headphones and filtering, it still comes out "free." I've also heard the arguments that there are two sisters which the narrator is dealing with…add him to the mix and you indeed, have "three." I don't buy it.

So the line becomes (at least to me) something of a cynical remark about the cost of "love." This would still fit in the theme for both the "real" love and the kind of "superficial" love (LUV) he has been exposing himself to. Both are expensive to the pocketbook and to your emotional well being.

My friends say no don't go for that cotton candy
Son you're playing with fire
The kid will live and learn
As he watches his bridges burn
From the point of no return

I really like the construction of this last section. We finally see that our narrator is not completely alone. He has friends that encourage him to "keep the faith." Stay away from that which is not real…stay away from the "fluff" and cosmetic love that you're addicted to. The friends continue the discussion among themselves…"Ah, he'll learn, we all had to." Unfortunately, the longer the narrator lives in this fantasy world, the more he will become alienated from those that can pull him back. Thus, as the "bridges burn," (his friends leave him) he will reach a point where he cannot return.

This is a song about the inner-struggle between a person's expectations and the reality of what is. Loneliness can cause us to do strange things. Even create a world where we can shut out our demons, even if it is just for a moment…a moment to imagine what could have been.

-Paige

---

Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 04:38:52
Posted by: Steveedan, Los Angeles

Hello everyone -

W1P - I did see FM, it was not very good, I believe Martin Mull was in it, and it was sort of like a WKRP but KRP-ier.

And I must agree that Ringo Starr is not just another Purdie face.

Steveedan

---

Date: Sun, September 09, 2001, 01:56:24
Posted by: W1P, LA

Hoops, I know I couldn't have been featured since I didn't exist in Dandom during the time frame in question. That doesn't stop me from regretting that I wasn't!

Has anyone here actually seen the movie FM?

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 23:02:27
Posted by: DrMu, Paul is Dead

A Capitol Error - thanks, Urethra

Early American single releases, dates, and labels:

04/23/1962 My Bonnie / The Saints (w/Tony Sheridan); Decca

02/25/1963 Please Please Me / Ask Me Why; Vee Jay

05/27/1963 From Me To You / Thank You Girl; Vee Jay

09/16/1963 She Loves You / I'll Get You; Swan

http://www.discographynet.com/beatles/beatles.html#USSINGLES

First American LP release:

INTRODUCING THE BEATLES

Released: July 22, 1963

Produced by: George Martin

Engineered by: Norman Smith

Label: Vee Jay LP-1062

Ringo listed as drummer on all tracks

http://www.discographynet.com/beatles/btitb.html

British recording and release of She Loves You. Whew! Fortunately, Purdie had invented the Concorde, so hops from NY to London were a breeze...

Label Parlophone

Catalogue No. R 5055

Country of Origin England

Recording Details Unknown number of takes on 1st July 1963

Release Date 23rd August 1963

http://www.jpgr.co.uk/r5055.html

Not that it matters, but most Beatles fans know that EMI released the albums Please Please Me and With the Beatles across the pond in 1963...

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 21:39:39
Posted by: Paige,

Great posts Uretha and Randy. I hope that this will put the issue to rest.

Thanks.

-Paige

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 21:10:29
Posted by: Sam,

Great post, er, "Urethra."

Now when Purdie says he played on them, we can say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." LOL

21?

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 20:44:26
Posted by: hoops,

Great post, Urethra! Thanks much!

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 20:33:44
Posted by: Urethra Franklin,

Purdie said what??!!

Here's an excerpt from Max Weinberg's book "The Big Beat" where he interviewed Bernard Purdie:

MW: You played on the Beatles' tracks?

BP: Twenty-one of them.

MW: Do you remember which ones?

BP: Ummmhmmm.

MW: Which ones?

BP: That's information I don't disclose.

MW: Why won't you name the tracks?

BP: Because, if I need that information to get me some money, then I'll have what's necessary. I also played on songs by the Animals, the Monkees--

MW: Everyone knows the Monkees were a fabricated band, but the Beatles--

BP: Ringo never played on anything

MW: Ringo never played on anything?

BP: Not the early Beatles stuff.

Anyway, Weinberg takes him to task on it and the up shot is that he says Brian Epstein was the one who arranged it and also paid him off to keep his mouth shut. I had the opportunity to talk to Max Weinberg about Purdie's claim and his reply was that he felt embarrassed for him.

In Ringo's chapter in the same book, Weinberg bring up Purdies claim and Ringo's reply is:

"Well then, what was I doing in the studio? I've heard that rubbish before. Everyone was expecting me to come out and fight it. You don't bother fighting that shit."

------------------------------

This is from "Gig" magazine, 2/78 issue. An article entitled "Bernard Purdie - the REAL fifth Beatle?" (excerpts)

New york - According to Bernard Purdie, a substantial amount of the drumming on the early Beatle albums was done by him, not Ringo Starr. Purdie is a New York based session drummer, best known for his seven years with Aretha Franklin.

"I overdubbed the drumming on 21 tracks of the first three Beatle Albums", maintains Purdie. "They paid me a lot of money to keep my mouth shut, but it's been ten years, so fuck it. I guess I can talk about it."

Not many other people are talking about it however, not surprising considering what's at stake. Reached through his lawyer Bruce Grakal, Ringo "does not wish to comment". Beatles producer George Martin would only say "I did not use another drummer," and no one at Capitol-past or present-knows anything or is willing to talk about it.

"I got paid in five figures," Purdie adds, "and that was the largest amount of money I'd ever gotten in my life."

It's actually been 14 1/2 years now. Purdie told Gig that in the summer of 1963, six months before the first Beatle album was release in the U.S., he was contacted to do a session-which initially seemed like al the others he was doing at the time.

"I had never heard of the Beatles," he says, "but their manager, Brian Epstein, called me and took me down to Capitol's 46th street studio. I did all the overdubbing on the 21 songs in nine days."

After Purdie was paid his double session fee of $130 an hour, he says, "Epstein called me into his office and gave me the additional (five figure - smallest would be $10,000) check. I thought they were paying me all that money because they liked what I played. Then he told me I was being paid to keep my mouth shut."

Purdie says he signed a "contract". Does he still have it?

"The contract", he explains, "was the check that I signed and I cashed it! On the back of the check, it was spelled out what I did -'payment for services rendered'. I took up half the check. But I didn't think about making a photostated copy. It didn't mean anything to me."

He says he worked on finished tapes. The early Beatle albums had already been released in England. This could mean the original English copies have Ringo doing the drumming while the American counterparts have Purdie on some tracks, Ringo on others, and, Purdie suggests, both of them on others.

"We were only doing eight trck recording. We weren't doing sixteen or twenty-four track at the time. They had four tracks and they put me on two separate tracks. I would listen to what Ringo had played and then overdub on top of it to keep it happening."

He doesn't remember specific titles except one he calls "Yeah Yeah Yeah", which would of course be "She Loves You."

"I remember that one well", Purdie says. "That was one of the big things coming out at the time, and was the one the engineer brought my attention to."

He says he never met any of the Beatles at the time. "The only people in the studio were me, the engineer, and Brian Epstein and a few of his people."

Not George Martin?

"No. I didn't even meet George Martin until 1969 when I went to England to do some work." Purdie says he doesn't even think Martin knows what he did.

"The manager did everything", Purdie stresses. "Epstein instigated everything that had to be done. He was the one who told me to keep my mouth closed. He was the one."

...........

Purdie, who says he did the same thing for the Animals and the monkees, suggests that other alterations were done to the early Beatle albums.

"After I was finishing up one day, the engineer said they had another guitar player coming in later to do overdubs and they were paying him good money to keep his mouth shut too. I asked him who it was, and he said "keep out of that Purdie.' I never did find out who it was.

"You listen to the guitar parts on the early records," Purdie adds. "There's a different sound to a lot of them."

------------------

And the Beatles fan's rebuttal....

This whole Purdie thing is a total "crock" and here's why. At the time Purdie says that he was doing these overdubs The Beatles music had already been released in America on VJ Records (and other small lables) and those of us with these original releases can compare with the Capitol releases. I did and you know what? THEIR EXACTLY THE SAME. Not only are they the same as the VJ releases but their also exactly the same as the Parlophone releases. And Purdie himself says that the sweetening was for the Capitol releases.

Sorry, this bird has flown.

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 18:49:44
Posted by: hoops,

Randy:

1) "defected "?

2) Thanks for sharing your ideas and facts about Purdie and The Beatles and connecting the previous thread that was elsewhere. Until Purdie, George Martin, one of the Beatles, or one of their associates gives us more concrete info, I think this topic will be recurring for years to come. It's come up in a variety of Steely Dan forums--SIS GB, Dandom Digest, Yahooo, and here, at least in the year or two since the "Aja" DVD was first released in the UK, if not earlier.

The latest reincarnation in this particular forum had some points and new vantages I had not heard of. I'm sure we'll do it all over again, here, there, or anywhere.

Thanks for posting; hopefully no one is making you feel that by posting to SIS, BB, Yahoo, alt or MarthaStewart.com you are defecting.

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 10:33:30
Posted by: Randy,

I've (temporarily) defected from the "Sign In Stranger" guestbook, and after seeing that there are (still) some posts here about the deplorable Bernard Purdie Beatles claim (which was talked about a month and a half ago on the other guestbook), I thought I'd do a re-posting of what I said there, for the sake of clarification:

Name: Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

NJ USA

Date: Friday, July 27, 19101 at 12:34:29

Comments:

Firstly, unless I missed something while perusing the guestbook archives, I'm surprised that there hasn't been more talk about Steely Dan's alleged contribution to an upcoming Joni Mitchell "tribute" album... Their claimed contribution was "Carey" from Mitchell's 1971 album, "Blue." An interesting choice, but I wonder if there is (or isn't) a more "suitable" one...

Secondly, I have been studying the career of the Beatles for OVER twenty years now, with a considerable library and archive of my own, and I have to say that there is NOTHING to back up the claim that Bernard Purdie played on any Beatles album. Aside from George Martin, the Beatles themselves, and a small number of engineers, no one has been allowed access to the master tapes and /or archived documentation of sessions/overdubs/editing other than a handful of respected journalists, including Mark Lewisohn (author of "The Complete Beatles Chronicle" from 1992 and "The Beatles Recording Sessions" from the same year) and Mark Hertsgaard, who penned the much overlooked "The Music and Artistry of the Beatles" in 1995. Brian Epstein had nothing to do with the recording aspect of their career, and had no access to any master tapes at any time. (Keep in mind that these tapes were [and are] OWNED by EMI/Capitol.) The Beatles themselves had to sign for everything that left the studio in the earlier years (as Lewisohn mentions in his book), and there would be no reason to replace Ringo. Starr's abilities are very underrated (though not at my house) and he was very capable with delivering anything the songs (or the band) needed. Witness the great drumming on George Harrison's "Something" from 1969's "Abbey Road," among many, many others...

Other than "Back In The U.S.S.R.," (which was a COMPOSITE drum track, i.e. initially laid by Paul and overdubbed later by John and George), "The Ballad of John & Yoko" (played by Paul), the single version of "Love Me Do" (which WAS played by session drummer Andy White), and "Dear Prudence" (recorded three days after "Back In The U.S.S.R. while Ringo was still gone), all songs had drumming by Ringo Starr. In no instance was Starr replaced due to insufficient capacity. For "Back In The U.S.S.R." Ringo had left the band for a few days due to stress and internal squabbles, on "Ballad of John..." Lennon had written the song and (as always) wanted it recorded right away, with George out of the country and Ringo unavailable or not. Thus it was recorded by John and Paul. On the first version of "Love Me Do," George Martin had brought in Andy White as back up after the situation wherein Martin had to suggest the removal of Pete Best (who WAS less talented on the drum stool). After Starr showed himself more than proficent, no one else ever needed to be brought in again.

The next question of course, is "why would Purdie lie?" Perhaps to lay claim to some of the most revered and popular music of the twentieth century, which garners more praise than any other sessions Purdie had any connection to (with the exception of those staggering works with Walter Becker and Donald Fagen)... Who knows. I love Purdie's work and respect him as a player, and he is actually a polite and eloquent man (I spoke with him briefly in 1994). But there is little proof to his claims, and if you read the RIGHT books and do the research, that can be seen.

P.S. The infamous "butcher" cover to 1965's "Yesterday and Today" was NOT a sarcastic swipe at Capitol as retaliation for any doctored recordings. It grew out of the band's twisted sense of arcane humor, much like the check mark over the face of Brian Epstein on the poster included with "The White Album" (1968). It was more about having to go to "yet another photo session" for a repackaging of songs for American release. The butcher picture was talked about in "The Beatles Anthology" book where they all seemed to feel it was better as an idea than when they actually sat to take the picture(s).

It's funny how no one makes a issue over songs Paul didn't play bass on, or others where George didn't play lead guitar...

"No fooling it's a fucked up world..."

- Walter Becker, "Junkie Girl"

Randy

NIGHTFLY62@aol.com

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 01:30:48
Posted by: DrMu, nowhere

Yes, I also subscribe to the notion of Gaucho as a transition album to Fagen's solo albums, specifically The Nightfly. It marks a marked change in songwriting strategy from ideas or surreal vignettes to storytelling. It's most apparant on the outtakes Second Arrangement, Kulle Baba, and Can't Write Home About You. The chord sequences also take up a chord sophistication that envelop the melodies. Most songwriters arrange chords to best fit the melody. It seems that these melodies here are derived from the very cool chord sequences. Indeed, the simpler rhythm sections are also a clue. It seemed that Fagen was on the verge of a developmental jump. A modern day Cole Porter.

But then writer's block and depression hit. It was inevitable. Fagen had trouble songwriting in a vacuum, and there was the growing up they'd put off since the 60s.

Not to leave out Walter Becker. Has anybody else notice how the guitar solo on Lucky Henry slides into a mode worthy of Allan Holdsworth? Also, aren't the dueling insane guitars beyond brilliant?!

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 00:43:40
Posted by: R J,

Have any of the Beatles ever commented on Steely Dan? Becker reminds me of Lennon and Fagen of McCartney, in some ways.

---

Date: Sat, September 08, 2001, 00:39:43
Posted by: R J ,

I was looking at this one Beatles book to see if it had anything about the Purdie debate. I found nothing on that but I found something on Steely Dan in it!

The book is called "Tell Me Why: The Beatles Album by Album, Song by Song" by Tim Riley.

The last chapter talks about bands that came after The Beatles. None are given much praise EXCEPT STEELY DAN.

"Only Steely Dan, the most strategically innovative group to follow the Beatles, won mainstream commercial favor, while going straight over most listeners' heads."

Every other artist and band, from James Taylor and Alice Cooper to Led Zep and Bob Dylan, he says they did some good stuff, BUT......

Just had to share.

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 22:30:51
Posted by: Sam,

Great Purdie discussion.

I saw this in a forum recently. Steely Dan, The Eagles and The Doobie Brothers all had followups in 1980. All three albums had to top the massive success of their previous albums. The pressure helped kill the bands for a long time.

If Gaucho was overworked, it was because of Donald having more influence on it. Walter was preoccupied with personal problems, so his soulful influence is much more in the background. In that way, Gaucho is a lot like Kamakiriad. Icy perfection. Great post, Paige.

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 22:16:34
Posted by: zimm, Connecticut

Ever notice that the blue of this bluebook is sometimes blue, or sometimes greenish?

Am I crazy? Am I high? Or just an ordinary....

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 21:12:24
Posted by: Kaizod I.,

* The exclusion of "Time Out of Mind" from "Gold" was a gaping hole. They could have at least put it on the expanded edition CD.

* "Gaucho" was an odd album. Remember that Walter Becker was hit by a car and hospitalized for part of it. His girlfriend also tragically died causing some legal wrangling. They didn't seem to enjoy that album. We all know the strains caused them to go different ways for a while. Like "Aja," I was familar with four of the seven songs on "Gaucho" long before I bought it. Was "Gaucho" recorded digitally in any way?

Kai

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 18:09:43
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

Time Out of Mind was a moderate hit. I heard it on the radio a lot in 1981. Yet, hardly anyone talks about it since. It wasn't even on a Greatest Hits compilation until Show Biz Kids.

WOW

######################################

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 17:58:28
Posted by: DrMu, left of the Rio Grande

Michelle: How about Bone Crusher Bennet (after the former very brief heavyweight champ who once ran from Mike Tyson Broilers for 15 rounds)? Have a Cuban Breeze on me!

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 17:28:21
Posted by: Michelle, The Jersey Beaches (not quite)

Paige has written some really provocative stuff. I agree with a lot of it. Donald and Walter wrote about Donny and Marie's Reelin' in their box set notes. They were amused.

Dr. Mu's names are pretty funny. I think I need to attend happy hour tonight before I come up with any. I know I want to use "The Baby Crusher" and "Whirlin' " as two nicknames.

Participating in Happy Hour may help me with Mu's post but will probably hamper my abilities to reply to Paige.

If I don't make it back from Happy Hour, have a nice weekend.

Michelle

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 16:17:49
Posted by: hoops,

My apologies to Paige on the puntuation problem. This has to do with differing character sets. Since Paige brought it up, this site is created on Macintoshes and then uploaded to a Unix-based Apache Web server. (I only use PCs when I am paid to which is about 8-12 a day.) I had a similar problem on a few occassions and in that case the problem was connected to the version of MS Word I was using, it's "smart quotes" and other punctuation and the browser I was using. Not sure if that is the case with Paige's post but the "?" have been converted. Please contact me at hoops@dandom.com if there are additional problems so they can be worked out. You take time and thought to write, so your words deserve to appear properly.

Just reminder, if you ever have a typo, post errors, or need a hyperlink or html code inserted, don't hesitate to email me--I'l be glad to tweak ASAP.

Looking forward to re-reading the items and indulging in my two cents worth after work today. Thanks, Paige and everyone else who contributes and/or reads.

h

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 10:32:11
Posted by: Paige, SB

Apparently I have a lot of questions....

It appears that all of the "," turned into "?".

Ummmm...Software must have been designed by a PC based system.

-P

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 10:24:52
Posted by: Paige, Santa Barbara

For those of you who have absolutely nothing to do, you might find these loosely associated thoughts and musings interesting.

In many ways, Gaucho is everything that Aja is and perhaps more. I won't deny the "near perfection" of Aja both musically and otherwise. It's clearly a masterpiece, a moment in time when the planets were perfectly aligned. The funny thing about Aja that I appreciate is the fact that it doesn't sound, "overworked." That is to say, it retains a certain complexity but never seems too "busy." Gaucho, on the other hand, had the greatest potential of suffering from "not knowing when to leave well enough alone." It seems that the creative process in music (and in general) is not unlike what is experienced in all forms of art. I have experienced the "overworked" problem myself when working in clay. At some point, if you don't know where (or when) to stop, the work will no longer represent what was originally conceived. Often, the artist ends up destroying the work rather than have it exist in a form not intended. Indeed, the "art" or instinct to know when a piece has reached its potential is, in itself, a critical part of the process.

I am sure that there are those that would argue that continuing a piece beyond its "so called" intention can result in unexpected and perhaps higher forms of art, so it is not to be dismissed. So be it, one form turns into another, each worthy of appreciation (and each necessarily and forever bound to each other).

One could even take the concept one step further when it is applied to "commercial" success (particularly in music). What the general public takes to the top of the charts is not necessarily the most polished or highest form of the art (nor should it be). I think that this is the reason why the "sophisticated" sound of Steely Dan often misses reaching the collective public ear. Even when the music itself is "catchy" and "sticks in your head," the public often misses the point of the song.

I heard it said that Donny and Marie opened one of their variety shows (late 1970s) singing "Do It Again" (or it could have been "My Old School"). Regardless, I'm sure that they had no idea what they were singing about. All they cared about was that it was a catchy tune. I bet Don and Walt got a kick out of that one.

But, as they say, I digress. Back to the "problem" of overworking a piece of art (not unlike what I'm doing with this post).

The work that went into Aja is legendary as is the effort that went into Gaucho. On the other hand, The Royal Scam seemed to stop at the perfect moment; not too polished while remaining sophisticated musically and lyrically. Which of the three best represents the Steely Dan sound (and mystique) is an absurd question. They are all parts of the same whole, only separated by the moment (of their creation). Yet, we all make judgments based on our own tastes born of our individual and collective experience(s). There is no way to be objective. But of course, this states the obvious.

Most agree that there is a distinction between the time period of The Royal Scam and everything after it. You know, it's the common line most draw between the "Rock and Roll" Steely Dan and The "Jazzier" Steely Dan (the latter of which, is often identified as more sophisticated...or is it?)

While I have always felt that "The Royal Scam" best exemplifies "Steely Dan," (especially in the content of the lyrics), it would be foolish not to recognize the Steely Dan of the "higher plain."

I've heard it said that Don and Walt deny the point that "Gaucho" was an attempt to create another "Aja." Of course, they would know this to be true better than anyone. However, I disagree. I believe that "Gaucho" was an effort to match (or at least carry on) Aja. There are too many similarities between the two efforts. Now, this could have been intentional or perhaps it was the creative phase they were in. It really doesn?t matter.

The only difference (as far as I can see) between the two albums is this: It seems that Gaucho was "overworked" when compared to Aja. It's almost as if some part of the creative process reached its zenith with Aja. Any attempt to repeat the effort would necessarily fall short.

However, as I stated earlier, the results of not knowing when to "leave well enough alone" does not necessarily mean that the effort should be regarded in any less light. Value judgments (ideally) have no place in art.

So, the "observation" still stands. Gaucho is a wonderful piece of work worthy of the highest accolades, but nevertheless; there is a sense that the boys were trying too hard. And in that effort, missed the zenith of the creative process by not identifying when to leave it alone, to let it stand in a simpler form, to walk away and ignore the temptation to "do it again."

"Okay everyone, take 254." "This time, with feeling."

-Paige

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 10:18:39
Posted by: DrMu, west of sunset

Let's take the line-up for Babylon Sisters:

Drums: Bernard "King - of Prussia" Purdie

Bass: Chuck "Daly" Rainer

Electric piano/clavinet: Don "King" Grolnick

Guitar: Steve "Genghis" Khan

Percussion: Crusher "Winston" Bennett

Trumpet/Flugelhorn: Randy "Cross" Brecker

Tenor/Alto Sax: Tom "Seaver" Scott

Bass Clarinet: George "Patton" Marge Simpson. Walter "Citizen" Kane

Backup Vocals: Leslie "Nielsen" Miller, Patti "Steve" Austin, Toni "Braxton fine" Wine, Lani "Anderson" Groves, VH1 Diva Gray, "G" Gordon Grady

Babylon-and on

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 07:58:43
Posted by: Howard, @lunch

Re: D+W's comments on SD songbooks on the AIA liner notes. I don't think they said that they actually used any songbooks to relearn their songs. If I remember right, they said they got the official songbooks with this in mind, and then realised all the chords they gave were wrong, so they threw them away. Sounds about right to me!

Should have maybe also mentioned before: my chord changes for Gold Teeth II are available (along with my other transcriptions) from:

http://www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/tab.html

Howard

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 01:41:26
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

SD is mentioned here, in tune with what the Doctah is grabbing at...

http://www.sportspages.com/discus/messages/5/472.html?999830751

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 00:56:13
Posted by: John Sampson, Erie, PA

First time posting here.

I was reading USA Today and they have a story about Anne Hesche's new bio. 32 is pretty young to be doing a bio. Her story is that she was abused by her gay dad (that's sad), had bad boyfriends and then made the best love ever (she said that) with Ellen Degeneras. She also dated Steve Martin whom she and Ellen ran into and Steve was not happy to see them. And then she did Ecstasy to be happy because she thought a spaceship would pick her up sorta like Heavens Gate. That's what she was doing when she was wandering around in a stupor last year. Now she is married to a guy and is pregnant and has her bio, "Call Me Crazy" OK! I WILL! Well what does this have to do with Steely Dan? Sounds to me like A STEELY DAN SONG!!!(save for the sick child abuse part) Tom? Everyone? What do you think? This lady could have walked out of some Dan song from the future, if you ask me.

It seemed funny when I read it.

John

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 00:40:41
Posted by: DrMu, Chris Berman's pad

"Let George Do it" Patton's Kiss and Tell

John "Dean and Deluca"

King Richard (Nixon); Good King John (Purty's pal)

Cathy Berberian (she really sang roulades and such)

Colonel "Parker's Band"

turn up/off the Eagles

Steely Dan t-shirt

The(lonius) Monk-ey in Your Soul

'Retha Franklin

Radio City (do places count?)

Lost Wages

Musswelbrook (town Down Under)

Barrytown

East St. Louis

Brooklyn

Five Zoos

Mexico City

New York to Paris

Coltrane on the KLH

the late Bobby DaKine

Caves of Altamira

Oregon

San Francisco

West on Sunset

West of Hollywood

Ohhhhhh, Miami

Fordham Road

Jane Street

Chesterfield Kings

Tuesday Weld

Mad about Brubeck

Ambush

Down in Tampa

Bogota

Ghana

Blazer

Chrysler

Numerous Alien planets

and many more...

---

Date: Fri, September 07, 2001, 00:34:13
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

DrMu- fuck that was funny.

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 22:17:21
Posted by: Purty One,

Yeah, good thing the issue about Purdie and the Beatles is put to rest. Now let's talk about Purdie and his secret trysts with Marilyn Monroe and how Purdie advised the Kennedy Bros. during the Cuban Missile Crisis, thus saving the world as we know it. There are references on Fagen's Nightfly album, you know.

I guess those are the only direct name drops in Steely songs. Why is it I think there are more?

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 19:58:04
Posted by: DrMu, over here

Yeah, I think the Purdie and the Beatles thing can be put to rest now. The most ludicrous assertion is that Brian Epstein arranged for the Purdie overdubs. Frankly, Epstein didn't know an amplifier from a pacifier.

Of course, Oliver Stone could make a movie about the *real* story of the Beatles. Bernard Purdie did play on Royal Scam, Gaucho, and Aja for a group that once recorded "Dallas" where there is a grassy knoll once visited by Kennedy, a veejay for MTV, a corporation who refused for many years to play videos by blacks (Michael Jackson doesn't count) or the founders of the music video, the Beatles as directed by Richard Lester, the Nightfly. So there ya go...

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 18:52:58
Posted by: hoops, one more thing

Just to clarify: If you look at beginning of each bluebook item, you will see a name next to "Posted by:" This is a hyperlink that when clicked, auto-addresses an email message to the poster, assuming the poster left a legit email address and your browser is connected to an email app.

Thanks for raising this point, Steveedan.

h

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 18:44:42
Posted by: hoops,

Just catching up on everything here from the past several days:

µ, jk, others: thanks for the advice on "Fall of '92."

Reinhard: Hilarious! Can't believe a year already since Frankfurt Danfest.

jk: thanks for the heads up on the September "Guitar Player." The October issue is also now out so you all better get the September issue before it's off the shelves. Nice interview with Walter. Chords are cool to see. The blueprint of a song.

Scot: I'm jonesin' to hear "Dirty Work" LIVE. I doubt we'll ever hear the girls do that in concert, in person, again. I also keep remembering those bright, white lights that would move through the audience during the trumpet solo.

Elaine: Never thought of "Everyone's Gone To The Movies" as being a Jimmy Buffet sendup. Not sure it is...but you are right, it could be.

µ: AGREED! Bernhardt was really special. Warren, Beas, and Baker all incredible. You've GOT to be when you are playing parts associated with Fagen, even tho Fagen really doesn't play.

kd: Been a long time since I considered the Nixon angle on "Kings." Will again.

I am not sure about SD Cover bands in CT but there are a lot out on Long Island and the NYC area so I could see them traveling up.

Cosmic Wow: wow, cosmic!

Steveedan, W1P, RJ, others: Thanks for the sales number tips.

Wendy: Don't be shy

dfsdgffdgdfggfhngf/whomever: No "Finer Things" on CD but you would at least think Rhino would get their mitts on the "Kind Of Comedy" sountrack. I caught all the music you did at intermission. Cool when there is that connection.

Superfly: Good to see you. I guess I am pretty impressionable when it comes to the Beatles. Good case you make. References?

Dave: Agreed.

Geoff, Steveedan, W1P, R J, others; keep us posted on the chords and all. I think that is really great when people share that sorta stuff. I never took D + W's comments on buying SD books and CDs to relearn the songs in 93 as being serious.

W1P, others: The Dannys were first and foremost fun and hopefully a way of making light of ourselves. If you weren't featured, consider yourself lucky. Again there is *some* statistical accuracy but also some fun mixed. View it for amusement. I know I have to...

Tom S. You are too much!

Where's Dave the Mohel? Are you just Dave?

Sorry if I haven't been able to address everyone. Hope to soon.

peace,

hoops

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 17:48:44
Posted by: Dave,

Nigey Lennon said in the last Digest that he ran into Bumpus and that the Dan are recording a new album. Any other sitings? Any hints or accusations? Maybe next year for real?

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 16:31:56
Posted by: Reinhard aka George, www.reheller.de

Hey yes, I just linked the goodbook, er, well, the bluebook on the sd links page on my site http://www.reheller.de - and just jumped over. Great link, great gb. What could be better? TNO!!! Just a little patience.

And yes, I played on the Beatles records as well. You just listen very closely. Strawberry Fields, after the intro, about 1 minute into the song. The tape hiss in the far left channel, that's me!

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 10:56:46
Posted by: Scott Iwen,

One additional note regarding Bernard Purdie and the Beatle thing:

The Beatles recording sessions (1962-1970) are very well documented in an excellent book - "The Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn. First published in 1989, this book is a delicious read for even a semi-serious Beatle fan. Lewisohn was asked by Abbey Road Recording Studio to listen, catalog and provide comments on all the Beatles music in their archives. He listened through thousands and thousands of takes, out-takes, overdubs and mixing sessions and had access to actual recording notes and session sheets. Recording engineers, producers (including George Martin) and even the Beatles themselves were also interviewed for the book. Lewisohn meticulously details every recorded Beatle session that occured once they were under contract with EMI - what songs were recorded, who was there (both musicians and recording staff personnel), which studio, number of takes, and running commentary. Needless to say, Bernard Purdie is never mentioned.

And once having read that book, I must say that, IMHO, idea of a clandestine trip to NYC for drum overdubs seems rather impossible. However, the idea of Purdie recording on some earlier (pre-EMI) recordings could have some merit.

Scott Iwen

---

Date: Thurs, September 06, 2001, 00:41:51
Posted by: hoops, home at last

Unfortunately, an immediate family member has been hospitalized for pretty much the whole past week, leaving me away from home and without regular net access. So I regret that I haven't been able to get to read or reply to much email, let alone checking out the bluebook, the Dandom Digest or the new links page. Thanks for your patience...I will get to you as soon as I can and hope to offer my humble 2 cents about some of the great stuff that has appeared here.

And again, a call for links.

There are plenty of link pages out there but everyone has its own slant or maybe gets you to a site you may not have noticed before.

dandom.com's new LINKS page will make it's debut (hopefully) in a few days. If you have a site or other Internet resource you would like listed, please email me at hoops@dandom.com or just click my name above.

Thanks to all for your help, support and inspiration. Good to see all the new faces, those of you making it over from the Digest for the first time, funny stuff and everything else.

Yours in madness,

hoops

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 23:35:18
Posted by: Kelly Dwyer, Chi

Hi everyone, how're things going?

First off, I have to apologize for initiating and then submarining the Outer Banks Danfest. I had some family stuff to deal with that I don't want to get into, and then the issues were compounded by a flooded apartment that set me back quite a bit on just about every level. 2002, 2003; whenever: I'm at every gig, and I'm buying every round. I'll make it up.

I lost my computer in the flood (my basement apartment was flooded three times between the 2nd and 29th, no fun), so I apologize for not being a part of things. I can say that the Dannys were amazing, awesome, and loads of fun. Thanks for taking the time to put EVERYTHING together Hoops! Thanks very much, 'appreciate it.

Secondly, though I've only been able to check from work and from friends' places, the blue book is rocking left and right. Great stuff that I'll never be able to respond to. The GB is back on track, too. Great stuff, considering I've taken to creating my own crossword puzzles on the ODP front page.

And believe me, I've tried to be a part of it all. The best I could do was dispute Dr. Mu's well-researched ideas about the real "King Richard" from "Kings," just guessing it the song was about Tricky Dick because of those 10-million dollar improvments he made on his pads in Yorba Linda and FLA.

But most of my listening has come via a 1/2 step slow pair of headphones on a too-old Walkman, so I'm doing the Valium thing without even trying. This means lots of Jethro Tull, just about the only thing that sounds good two steps down.

This is a reaction to the "Royal Scam" talkin' that was going on a month or so ago. "Royal Scam," yes, that's about as good as it gets. Funky, cynical, funky, and funky too. S'all I need. But "Aja" is still my tops. I might like "RS," "Kamakiriad," or others better, but I keep coming home to what counts. This quote from E.B. White about "Walden," by Henry David Thoreau, pretty much defines "Aja" for me:

"Every man, I think, reads one book in his life, and this one is mine. It is not the best book I have ever encountered, perhaps, but for me it is the handiest, and I keep it about me in much the same way one carries a hankerchief -- for relief in moments of defluxion and despair."

Everyone take care and drop me a line if'n you feel it...

KD

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 21:51:23
Posted by: ZIMM, connecticut

During the 80s there was a Dan band in our area, Beau Bolero. They have long departed the scene. Wondering if anyone here knows of a Dan band that plays in the CT area? thanks!

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 21:31:50
Posted by: R J,

How about West of Hollywood. There's a song to goose the Bride and Groom !

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 18:39:46
Posted by: Superfly,

As we all know, Mr. Purdie has a rather over-inflated ego ("You done it! You done hired the hitmaker!") and an active imagination.

Fact: Purdie NEVER played drums or even clapped his hands on ANY Beatle song.

However, Purdie overdubbed drums on a 1961 session the Beatles recorded backing a guy named Tony Sheridan, recorded in Hamburg long before they were famous or recording their own songs. According to devout Beatle scholars, he played on only four tracks:

Ain't She Sweet

Sweet Georgia Brown

Take Out Some Insurance

Nobody's Child

Not quite Beatle standards, eh? Furthermore, Ringo wasn't even in the band then - it was the mess left by Pete Best that Bernard was asked to fix. It is likely that the people who asked him to redo the drums were representing MGM Records, who had the American rights to the sessions and which were released to coincide with the American onslaught of Beatlemania.

Purdie has made some bizarre claims about his career, but overdubbing Beatle songs is probably his most absurd.

Rick 

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 18:15:27
Posted by: Cosmic Wow,

Steely Dan Songs Appropriate & Meaningful for Any Wedding

Hatian Divorice

Everything You Did

Tomorrow's Girls

My Rival

.....and of course.....

Little Cringemaker

WOW~!

P.S. Throw in The Fez since it's a disco number that stops every now and then.

#######################

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 17:59:06
Posted by: Wicked Librarian, Berkeley

I am serving as matron of honor for my best friend's wedding. She asked me for some "danceable" SD tunes for the dj at the reception. I am drawing a blank. I own the full SD catalog, can deconstruct many a lyric & yet am drawing a blank. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

So far I am considering:

Do It Again

Janie Runaway (funky)

Deacon Blues

Book of Liars (slow dance)

Ruby Baby (retro)

Thanks in advance for your consideration,

Lil' Cringe

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 15:17:44
Posted by: gfdfg, dfgfdgdfg

The sound guy chose the reggae tunes before the Steely Dan concerts, as well as the Mark KNopfler stuff afterwords. He also did the Paul Simon tour and played the same reggae before and the same Knopfler after Simon's shows. Who was talking about Fagen and Simon hanging out? Well, that's a connection for you.

Dan Healy played all of Kamakiriad during intermission at the Grateful Dead shows summer 1993.

Place is a bit dry, you think?

Q: Has "The Finer Things" ever been released on CD anywhere?

A: Of course not.

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 13:31:14
Posted by: Michelle B.,

The opposite of being name-dropped by Steely Dan was/is? the popular 80s band Deacon Blue which took it's name from Deacon Blues.

Michelle

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 02:53:12
Posted by: Steveedan, Los Angeles

Scot - You wish could be my command. I have written a totally accurate chart for Your Gold Teeth II just recently. I am currently one of the keyboard players for the Southern California based Steely Dan Tribute band called The Steely Fan Band. Your Gold Teeth II is my favorite Steely Dan song of all. Email me and we can discuss getting this chart to you further ...

Peg - You write Steely Dan song chord charts too? Move over Bjorn, Howard W., and ME !!! Email me with your list of charts, I will respond with a list of my own. Howard's can be found on his website. I would be interested to see how you write your charts. Pick your most complex chart. That would be fun to see, if you please.

Elaine - I am sorry that you missed the August 11th Dan Fest with the Steely Fan Band opening for the amazing Which One's Pink? Were you at the Irvine 2000 concert and if so did you see the white limo with the Steely Fan Band members? I would be interest to know.

W1P - How's it going DJ? I too would love to know the exact (or reasonably close) figures to the album and/or CD sales for the whole Steely Dan/Fagen/Becker catalogue of music. I tripped and the madman that I was running from caught up with me -- and kicked my ass. Thank you Mother, may I have another?

Angel - I am so sorry that you and M and J could not make the show. We had a different lead singer and another sax player for the gig. I felt that the gig went well. We enjoyed great weather and the crowd was huge. We played our 3-hour set list - roughly 28 Steely Dan songs. Hope the family is swiftly recovering. Take care.

** NOTE ** If any of you are sufficiently curious or interested in chord charts or other information from me, I invite your inquiries--just click on my name at the beginning of this post which is a link to my email.

Keep it really Steely y'all.

Steveedan (MFM for the SFB)

---

Date: Wed, September 05, 2001, 00:23:06
Posted by: Wendy,

Hi!

Been lurking for a few weeks now. Want to say how much I like the discussion style here. Hope I can contribute something meaningful soon. Looking for the right time to jump in. I am excited about the next album.

Wendy

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 22:52:43
Posted by: Steve S.,

A band name-dropped in a Steely Dan song:

Steely Dan in Show Biz Kids

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 22:13:05
Posted by: R J,

I was just looking at http://www.riaa.org They have a database where you can look up all every album certified Gold, Platinum, multi Platinum and Diamond.

All Steely Dan albums are platinum except Gold, Decade, the Box and Coutdown to Ecstasy. Those are Gold. Aja is Double Platinum.

The Nightfly just went Platinum about a week ago! Kama is Platinum. Nightfly was a much better album than Kama.

I don't have time now to tally but their database is cool.

More later.

R J

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 21:51:21
Posted by: Paige,

We live in the theater of the absurd.

-Paige

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 19:01:50
Posted by: Michelle B., Princeton Jct, NJ

Thought I would drop by before leaving work.

Steely Dan has to have sold more than 20 million. More like 40 million.

I was listening to Do It Again, again, today. I really never thought much about that line, "But the hang man isn't hangin'" What a great line!

Nite y'all.

Michelle

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 18:23:17
Posted by: groucho, amigo

WRONG! Up missed Cathy Berberian, Arethat Franklin, Otis Redding and those are just those that come to mind at this very moment.

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 15:48:35
Posted by: luckless pedestrian, @ fire escape

up, you missed just one:

"turn up the eagles..." - everything you did

see new faces in here - hello to all, i'm back

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 00:58:42
Posted by: W1P, wch1ispink@aol.com

The Billboard site has no album specific past chart info. The RIAA site has dates of certification and level of certification (GOLD/PLAT/MULTIPLAT) but not precise sales levels. Anybody else have any ideas where I can find up to the date info on numbers of each Steely Dan Lp sold?

---

Date: Tues, September 04, 2001, 00:42:51
Posted by: Cuz' Arnie, Ashtabula, Ohio

Doc Mu: I agree that they should have used one show for Aliver in America but I thought SPAC-Saratoga Performing Arts Center-was better than St Louis in 93. Ditto on the Becker and the Choir tracks surfacing as bonus tracks or MP3s. Did we ever figure out what religion Becker is? Fagen's parents were up front and acknowleded at the Cleveland show. His parents must be proud.

Toodle-Oo

Cuz' Arnie

---

Date: Mon, September 03, 2001, 19:26:04
Posted by: R J,

Didn't know that about Sweet's book. Given that it hasn't been published since the mid 90s, is there a site that has back issues of Metal Leg available? Only caught the last six issues of Metal Leg.

I guess Michael Jackson takes the award for most expensive album, by far. Sounds very overdone if it cost $30, 000,000.00 to make. I read that Dylan's new album, which is out in about a week, took only **two weeks** to make! I suppose if they wanted to make a Bob Dylan album, then Steely Dan would take two weeks too. Fagen is a Dylan fan so maybe they will be inspired by Bob. Maybe they will do it in a year.

Sherla talked about A.C. Radio. I agree their record company missed out on an opportunity to score big time with A.C. Radio. Almost Gothic is an intelligent song that could have been an A.C hit as well. But I'm not especially thrilled with hearing Steely Dan alongside Celine Dion and Whitney Houston or whoever is the fluff-of-the-month. So it's just as well. I did miss the commercial availability of CD singles with Bonus tracks in the USA. That would have been cool.

R J

---

Date: Mon, September 03, 2001, 10:36:32
Posted by: angel, I would love to tour the Southland

Elaine: The website you want to look at is Tomas Broberg's http://www.broberg.pp.se. All links on his page have midi sequences that take a bit to load, but the information is great.

Here is the direct giglist page: http://broberg.pp.se./sd_concerts.htm

According to the list, The Greek and San Bernardino were in '93. Irvine in '94. Hope that helps.

---

Date: Mon, September 03, 2001, 08:13:30
Posted by: Howard,

Scot - there is a "Steely Dan complete" songbook which covers all songs upto and including Gaucho. But, it's one of the poorer songbooks in terms of the accuracy of the transcriptions. It will give you something for the Gaucho songs, but the chords may not be great ...

There are some more recent songbooks with better transcriptions, though you may only find a handful of Gaucho tracks. From memory, Hey 19, Gaucho and Time out of Mind have been done.

Thanks to Peg for mentioning my SD songbook page - the direct link is:

http://www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/songbooks.html

details of the various songbooks and the tracks they cover can be found there.

Howard

---

Date: Mon, September 03, 2001, 03:17:31
Posted by: Elaine, Covina, Calif.

Hello again. Hi WlP. Hope to see you guys next time. My friend and I are disagreeing as to whether it was 93 or 94 that Steely Dan first played Irvine and/or L.A. Was it 93 at Irvine only, or L.A. too or both or one of them didn't get played until 94? Confused? So am I. Thank you for your answers or web links.

Elaine

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Date: Sun, September 02, 2001, 22:00:30
Posted by: Dave, Yonkers, NY

Dan Fans-

W1P: That's an ambitious survey. How will you count those who bought all seven of the classic albums via Citizen Steely Dan? For exact stats, maybe you can go to an www.riaa.org or www.billboard.com. Hope you don't have to be a member. 20 or 25 Mil copies sound about right, if you ask me.

Songbooks: Around the time of the 93 tour Becker/Fagen said they had to buy the songbooks and CDs to learn their songs again. Don't know if that was truth or sarcasm. You never know with those jokesters. But I do remember them dissin' many songbooks as being wrong. Watch out!

Steely Dan Bio: As a long-time Metal Leg subscriber, I can tell you that Pete Fogel, along with Bill Pascador, took Sweet's publication and took it to a higher level. I can also tell you that Sweet lifted many of the good parts of his book from Fogel's Metal Leg issues. I would read Sweet's book and then realize I read it before in ML. The reason Sweet's book didn't have an index must have been that Fogel didn't provide one in ML for Sweet to "borrow." Of course, Sweet's opinions are his own. There were many special milestones of an intimate kind for us Dan Fans in the Metal Leg days. Lone Star, Beacon, New York Rock and Soul, Joe Roccisano. Pete would phone us Metal Leg subscribers to let us know. A Fogel Bio? I salivatate at the thought.

Cost of TAN: Last Spring, Fox was running this lame story about TAN costing $6 Mil. to make. Like that's shocking? Story running in today's paper said Michael Jackson's upcoming album cost $30 Mil. to make. Now that's shocking! Must be all the plastic surgery.

JK: Thanks for the heads up on the article. I'll be sure to get it.

'till we meet again,

Dave

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Date: Sun, September 02, 2001, 14:13:24
Posted by: W1P, Missing the boat on Danfests 2000

Hoops, I have not commented on the Dannys until now because, frankly, I'm just jealous. I was in NY for the presentation but, of course, I missed EVERY Dan show in the year 2000 (because, among other reasons, I had a 3 month trial in Miami and my daughter Aja was born on 3/12/00). Therefore, I did not attend a single Danfest. Not that I would have if I had time to go to the show (and feel the warm thrill of confusion, that space cadet glow) -- I did not participate in Dandom until early 2001 and, therefore, would not have known a Danfest if it bit me on the ass. So, standing there in NY with all these really funny and nice Danheads simply served to demonstrate all that I had missed and it hurt, believe you me. So, now I have mustered a review of the Dannys page and there is so much funny stuff there it just kills me. But I'm glad I went to the page -- the voter comments are hysterical (and of course were not part of the ceremony). I'm still jealous, but thanks for the hard work -- if you were trying to entertain someone, it worked. DJ aka W1P running from the madman he's longing to be.

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Date: Sun, September 02, 2001, 13:50:37
Posted by: W1P, Land of the Lost

Sean, thanks for the info. I continue to want to see precise album sales figures for each Lp which I will then use to speculate like crazy as to why (hypothetically) Pretzel Logic sold 1392 more copies than Katy Lied. The sales of the greatest hits and other compilation Lps are also of interest to me. How many people bought a greatest hits Lp just to get Here at the Western World? How many bought Citizen just to get Jerome? These and other questions are burning on my mind. Let's take me for example. I owned every vinyl and even had the single Hey 19 to get Jerome. I then bought CDs of Royal Scam and Aja and waited until Citizen to get the rest. These buying habits, I believe, reflect a lack of Dan obsession during the period roughly from my first acqusition of a CD player (circa 1985) through the release of Citizen (1996). Which raises another interesting question -- for those of you from the "vinyl generation," what was your first CD? Mine (like millions of others) was Springsteen's Live 1975-1985.

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Date: Sun, September 02, 2001, 12:28:53
Posted by: Purty One, The Only One?

Agreed. 92 on Euro CD is the cat's pajmamas

Dan songs that name the names of other musicians:

Coltrane-Snowbound

Brubeck-New Frontier

Elvis-FM

Charlie Parker-Parker's Band

Felonious in Midnite Cruiser doesn't count. There's got to be others.

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Date: Sun, September 02, 2001, 10:16:41
Posted by: jk,

september guitar player reviews jazz rock party and also features a solo transcription of walters work on jack of speed with a photo by amanda parks.

92 on the euro single is the best version.

jk

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Date: Sun, September 02, 2001, 00:46:44
Posted by: Sherla C.,

Any chance of the new album being out for a summer 2002 tour? My favorite from 2 Against Nature was "Almost Gothic." It could have been an AC radio hit. How come no AC singles? I remember True Companion on AC radio. Much potential missed.

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 23:39:48
Posted by: DrMu, you know

Sean: I prefer mine in dirty rice made nice. The Beacon Theater and Eliot Schiener made NYR&SR sparkling. AiA is taken from a number of dates and messaged in the studio. From an engineering standpoint, they would have better off taking the St. Louis tapes and serving them up virtually raw. Excellent performances though of course of AiA - Book of Liars and Green Earrings, for example. Could have easily lost the drum solo and saved looser drumming for the studio!

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 23:16:43
Posted by: Sean , Quincy, MA

Long time no see.

--Aja has sold 5 million and the other six have gone Platinum, although Countdown to Ecstasy might be just gold. 2VN went Platinum. Then there is Decade 2X Platinum and ditto for Gaucho. And then throw in 500,000 for AIA maybe. This would all be the USA. I say it's more like 20 Million albums they have sold Worldwide.

--Oh, yes, Dr. Mu, I would love the "liver" version of Fall of 92, smothered in onions. Or maybe the chicken version. (OK just teasing, I like you Mu, I make that mistake too since "e" and "r" are right next to each other on the keys, unless you meant LIVER. Then I defer to your tastes.)

--NY RNS Revue was DEFINITELY a much better liver album than AIA. The songs on both are great but the audience seems added as an after thought on AIA.

--Wetside Story should be renamed All Wet.

Sean

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 20:35:18
Posted by: DrMu, @home

RJ: Don't have the European promo, but the live version I've heard was from St. Louis '93 and the promo (I think the liver version is there, too) on Andy Metzger's page:

http://members.home.com/metzger/dan/

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 18:22:29
Posted by: R J,

Tom's ideas for songs are surprisingingly accurate, although I think the Kid Charlemagne's Last Stand could also pass for a Beastie Boys video.

OK OK OK, I hear you, you Wetside haters.

That's IT! That's what I don't like about Alive In America. Virtually no beginning or ending. New York Rock and Soul Revue was a fine job of getting it all on one CD. Really captured the whole experience. So I don't understand why the flow on Alive In America was lacking. I think the latter is a stiff set.

Brian Sweet's book is pretty good for what it is and some of you are being too hard on it. There's a revised version out but I have not seen it. How about a bio written by Pete Fogel?

Dr Mu, is the studio demo of Fall of 92 on that eastern European promo single that was discussed before? Or is that a live version? Thanx. Dirty Work 2000 would be a great bonus track. Or maybe an MP3 from steelydan.com. How come they don't have more MP3s at steelydan.com?

I believe world-wide sales of official Steely Dan albums, the ABC/MCA stuff, plus Alive and TAN is about 8 million. Just a guess. Forgot where I heard it.

Enjoy the weekend everyone.

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 17:12:24
Posted by: Geoff , Dallas

Scot,

I have a Gaucho Songbook which was published shortly after the album came out, so its probably 19 years out of print. Some of the songs have re-appeared in more recent songbooks. Try /WWW...Cherry Lane...Warner Bros music...Hal Leonard...com/ etc - they all have artist searches. If there's anything specific you want send me an e-mail.

Hi Peg ! - I hadn't realised Howard had songbook review on his site - I'm off to read them...

Geoff

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 17:05:13
Posted by: W1P, Los Angeles

Hello Elaine from Covina! We missed you at the Mini-Danfest in Tarzana on 8/11 http://www.dandom.com/danfests/la

Does anybody have readily available statistics on the current overall, worldwide sales of the Steely Dan catelog? If so, would you please take the time to post that info here? I'd think the answers they'd reveal would be unreal.

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 10:57:27
Posted by: Peg, I might have found a lead singer now

Hello, all. Been reading and thinking. (Latter part is sometimes dangerous!)

Tom S: Concerning your idea about Kid Charlemagne's Last Stand -- the time has come. It actually occurred three doors down from me last Monday, as the Feds swept in and hauled away Kid who was preparing to annihiliate my sweet ranch and those others nearby with a meth cloud. I am glad I am still here, I think. I could not help but think of Kid C. throughout the entire ordeal. Scary.

Scot: To get great ideas about the Steely Dan songbooks available, go to the Steely Dan official Web site, click on site guide, keeping in touch, lots of SD links, and then on "Howard's SD Guitar Tabs....and Songbook Reviews." It is a great compilation of the books available. To my recollection, there is no book that has all of Gaucho on it, but some are out there. If you're desperate, just e-mail me with your request(s) and I can at least send you most of the chords, as I play by ear most of the time.

Have a great weekend ya-all!

~Peg

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 09:58:49
Posted by: Scot,

Any chance we will see an official live album from the 2000 tour? I'm jonesin' to hear the Choir sing Dirty Work. One thing I didn't like about Alive In America was that it was only one CD and didn't have much of a beginning or ending. It just seemed like a collection of live songs rather than a set or two from a concert.

Are there any good music books out there for Steely Dan songs? Specifically, I am looking for one that includes all of the songs on Gaucho as well as the music to Gold Teeth II. A Citizen Steely Dan collection maybe?

My 4 yr old daughter likes Janie Runaway a lot but I sure don't want to explain it to her!

Scot

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Date: Sat, September 01, 2001, 03:42:23
Posted by: Elaine S., Covina, California

Those song ideas are pretty clever. I can't remember Wetside Story so I geuss it wasn't any good. If Everyone's Gone To The Movies isn't a Jimmy Buffet send-up, it could be. Nice place, Hoops. I had given up on guestbooks but I have bookmarked this one. Looking forward to the next SFB gig, too bad I missed the 11th. Hello to everyone from the Irvine Danfest from last year. That's all for now.

Elaine

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August 2001 Guestbook Entries